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gsmith120
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Platinum
3D Printable for Everyone?
gsmith120   4/14/2012 6:43:10 PM
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I like the idea that the average person would have the ability to select, print and program a robot.  Exactly how this will be accomplished and made available will be interesting.  Some people have a difficult time programming universal remote controls.  A professor once told his programming class creating an easy to use program means a lot of work on the programmer and I think this comment applies to this concept.  To develop something that is simple will take a lot of upfront work and planning plus a reasonable costing 3D printer.   Nevertheless, I like the concept.

gsmith120
User Rank
Platinum
Re: I think this is all ready being done!
gsmith120   4/14/2012 6:29:02 PM
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The information on the web page is very interesting.  However, I wonder about the company no real company information all I remember seeing are several generic email addresses.  If anyone has first hand working knowledge or relationship with this company please post.

nitchvideo
User Rank
Iron
I think this is all ready being done!
nitchvideo   4/12/2012 11:29:31 PM
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It seems like this company is already doing that.

www.printablecircuits.com

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Focus on Research
Charles Murray   4/12/2012 6:32:55 PM
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@JCG: When I invested in Lego Mindstorms, I said it was for my sons, too. :)

SparkyWatt
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Focus on Research
SparkyWatt   4/12/2012 6:29:01 PM
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Neural nets aren't programmable.  At least not in the sense of the programmer positively determining what they do.  At best, a neural net can be trained to respond a specific way to specific stimuli.  When it then gets dissimilar stimuli, it is anyone's guess what it is going to do.  I wouldn't recommend them for this kind of thing at all.

Save them for applications where their flexibility is a bonus and their lack of determinism is not a hazard or a detriment.

On the subject of paper, I felt the same way about the pictures, but I have also seen a true 3D printer that uses paper and glue for its build matrix.  So I withheld comment on that point.  The possibility is still there.

JCG
User Rank
Gold
Re: Focus on Research
JCG   4/12/2012 5:43:44 PM
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I agree, this is cool, but I'm a little skeptical too... not that it couldn't be done, but I don't think we're there yet... or at least not a the level I think is implied by the teams.

Are the pictures actual working prototypes or theoretical mock-ups/proposals?  The pictures can be telling... the 'frame' may be paper, the PCB may be paper or 3D printed, but it's pretty obvious that the components (op amps?  transisters?) are not... so it's like a paper breadboard.  I also noticed the wires tethered to the back, suggesting that power and/or control must not reside within the robot.

I've been interested in 3D printing, and even the upcoming revolution in 'printable' technology, such as printable solar panels, printable circuitry, etc. using special inks/toners with standard hardware.

I'm also curious how they'd deal with joints and control of motion... I could see motion powered via piezoelectrics if the material can be conductive and deposited via ink (paper) or 3D printer (maybe sintering as opposed to the plastic printers).

For what application would these be used? As 3D printers improve and become more versatile, I can see application with more rigid structure, but I have a little trouble with the paper aspect, unless we're mainly talking circuitry.  These look like origami art mixed with parts from an old radio... The Lego Mindstorm system is cool, although I have yet to get my own system to tinker with (it's really for my son :)), but part of the limitation of the Legos is it's advantage... a reconfigurable rigid modular system.

Although it's neat to think of using paper as a construction medium, it strikes me more as a novelty in practicality... Just thinking of possible applications...  self-delivering mail (or notes, across class), toys to chase or pique your pets' interested (until they try attacking/chewing it), paper Roomba, process serving (subpoenas/summons, etc.), negotiations in dangerous/hostage situations, swarm of cellulose assassins (new meaning to the term "death by a thousand papercuts"), or (my favorite) make paper robots out of the NSF grant money and watch it walk away.

As far as programming, programming can be pretty simple... I have little toys 'robots' that run off simple neural networks... although like 'hard wired' into the circuitry, a software/programming variation isn't that complex... I'm sure I could make simple neural net programs in assembler if I wanted, and it's one step away from machine code.

While I'm all for basic research and (useful) applied research, I'm guess I'm not sold on sending $10M in taxpayer money for this type of research project. Just because a bureaucrat gives out a grant doesn't mean that it's worthwhile, and there are numerous examples of that I don't won't to go into right now. In my opinion, I don't have a problem with this research at this time if it is paid for by somebody else... the universities, industry (maybe the paper and/or 3D printer industries), private investors, and/or venture capitalists, but given our current government fiscal incompetence, I'm against this kind of grant... I don't see the return to the government (or their boss, the taxpayers and citizens) for the investment, no matter how often one of them uses the term "democratize". 

SparkyWatt
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Focus on Research
SparkyWatt   4/12/2012 1:24:41 PM
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I think this is very cool.  Of course, at best, this will develop a collection of basic devices that can be linked together with quasi-rigid peices that the user lays out.  But if the basic devices are at the right "scale" this could be a big step forward.

Think of the Lego Mindstorms system.  It enables kids to build autonomous devices using a half a dozen special purpose Lego bricks, and their Lego sets.  This project would use 3D printing to free the user from the limitations of the Legos.  The other component would be simplifying the programming.  Even Mindstorms programming is pretty rigorous.  Developing the next level of abstraction in programming would be worth the $10 Million by itself.

JPW
User Rank
Silver
Makerspaces
JPW   4/12/2012 9:16:25 AM
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Seems to me that makerspaces (hackerspaces) are already moving in this direction w/o the government or millions of dollars for grants. Anyone check out Jeremy Blum on YouTube and the makerspace movement?

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Focus on research
Charles Murray   4/11/2012 7:25:32 PM
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I don't know if this would be classified as applied or basic research, but I like the fact that it has a five-year goal of compiling printable, programmable machines. The fact that it has a $10 million NSF grant must mean that someone thinks it's realistic.

Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Focus on Research
Beth Stackpole   4/11/2012 3:28:14 PM
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I totally agree with you, Ann, and it is in keeping with some of the other stuff we've written about. The thing is these robots are real robots thus have to actually move and perform tasks. That's where the reliance on 3D printing is questionable, in my book. We wrote about this initiative My Robot Nation, where 3D printer companies were trying to encourage lay people to design and print their own robots, but these were toy robots. Very doable. This NSF thing--maybe not so much.

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