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Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Iron

Great presentation and lecture. Thank you Max and Alex.

Iron

Great presentation and chat session, Thanks max and Alex

Iron

Very nice presentation about anatomy of MPUs, ASICs and FPGAs

Definitely interesting as I have been in the business longer than Max and know some of the History -- though more on the "Big Iron" side.

One of the links led me to all the training modules on the Digikey site -- woth exploring as well.

Iron

For 'roll-your-own' Industrial Control the re-hash (and amplifcation) of this information on Microcontrollers, Microprocessors, PLDs, ASICs, FPGAs could have been integrated into the earlier class had those classes been groomed in their presentation.  The objective being to cover this information, then press on to bigger things ...

Good presentation - better slides.  Still, verbal description exceeds by too far the bulleted text that would make the presentation stand-alone and self documenting.  28 slides in this presentation compated to 22 slides in the previous course shows that better slides means more info can be covered in same time -- efficiency and productivity -- this could be improved as stated above ...

Mixed signal ASIC is often a phrase used to distinguish digital ASICs from those that are both analog and digital

CPLD = Complex Programmable Logic Device, SPLD = Simple Programmable Logic Device

(from a poster's question)

 

 

Okay Re running this one

Another great session

 

Iron

hello a week late due to travel

Iron

Thanks Max, thanks Alex.

Iron

Energy micro has a good ide to develop energy efficient code.  very helpful.

Iron

for power savings you have to do the math for each processor.  32 bit is faster and can save power that way vs. 8 bit.

Iron

32bit and 16 bit micros...  Need to watch your coding for each.

Iron

Fasinating Stuff thanks Clive

Picking up where I left off

Hello,

About the slides 13 to 15: the duty cycle and the power-down and the peak currents (which are different for 8, 16 or 32 bit microcontrollers) are important in the power calculus. So the 32 bit microcontrollers 'supremacy' is not so obvious for any kind of applications. Thank you.  

 

Iron

@gschmick: uCs with RF section, ARM Cortex M3 based: Energy Micro EFR4D, 8051-based TI CC2530/31/33, CC1110, MSP430-based CC430

Iron

i will be on time today

Iron

i really missed alot

Iron

I'll try to be on time tomorrow...

Iron

Max, thank you for one more very informative lecture! Love the slidepack today...

Iron

Could somebody help?... I have power point 2007(updated) in spanish. When I open, the downloaded slide I've this mesg: "there is no text converter for this type of archive (my translation from spanish). Do i need to switch some option( which i dont see it in "properties" for this program) or ask MS for an update to be able to read in english? I dont have this problem with Adobe reader 9.5.0 part of the whole MS suit in spanish. Thanks.   

Iron

At least the slides are available and the audio is there...

Iron

@shandu13 - That makes two of us... :)

Iron

good session, and responses. Thanks

Iron

CPLD:  Complex Programmable Logic Device

SPLD:  Simple Programmable Logic Device

Iron

Missed the lecture today... summer time !@#$%

Iron

Can I know the expansion of CPLD and SPLD?

Iron

Thank you Clive, Alex, and all. So long.

Iron

"jrochow: commercial forths like the vxforth or swiftforth are (cross-)compiled"

Thank you

Iron

Thanks, Max and all for your replies!

Iron

jjrochow: commercial forths like the vxforth or swiftforth are (cross-)compiled

Iron

"Fun stuff to do ..." is this amazingly distant from our "day-to'day" ocupations? I wish I founda job to only do "fun stuff" all day long.:o)

Iron

OK Chaps and Chappesses -- I have to go and put out more fires (reminds me of Supertramp's album "Crisis, What Crisis?")  I hope to see you tomorrow

Blogger

RE: Question for Max: Which uC's have built-in RF sections?

I believe TI has a MSP430 16 bit microcontroller with an RF section.  The CC430 or something like that. 

@Clive Maxfield: My question about uC's with builtin RF was answered by GBoos: Silicon laboratories SI10xx or Si4010, TI CC430, ...   Does this mean they are hybrid analog?

Iron

or..

the interpreter could be locked in cache...

@gschmick "Which uC's have built-in RF sections?"  I don't know off-hand -- but there's a company called Synapse Wireless here in town (synapse-wireless.com) who do low-power area network modules and I knwo their CTO and he was telling me about them -- they'v ebeen around for at least a year -- maybe more -- I'll try to find out more (but no promisses because I am up to my ears in alligators fighting fires without a canoe at the moment ... I never metaphor I didn't like :-)

Blogger

I developed in forth a  library of quotient arithmetic, that may have its use in "integer like" signal processing. If one could devise a MPU that implemented that sort of processing done in forth, it would be neat!

Iron

Could be done with a standard Forth and a word that acts as a branch to a bit of assembled code.

That's right. No interpreter in the middle.

Iron

That's right! Anyone can do anything; time and money are the only roadblocks! LOL

Iron

"At some point I think there was a compiled forth. Anyone recall?"

Was this about removing the inner-interpreter from the loop?

One of the things I wan tto do is to write my own BASIC interpreter. Forth is a threaded-interpreted language -- I always wanted to create my own Forth Interpreter also ... but there's so much fun stuff to do and so little time to do it all in...

Blogger

DanlaFleur: I take it that you are a Forth fan.

I have also met him..several times.

Max: you have answered my question.

anyone can write their own compiler or assembler in Forth.

@jjrochow "Back to the VHDL issue.."   sorry - -I'm a two-fingered typist -- I can;t keep up -- what was the VHDL issue?

Blogger

@Clive Maxfield - Your description of anti-fuse, SRAM, Flash and Hybrid Flash/SRAM was just what I needed.  Thanks.

Iron

Yes that is about the extent of my knowledge as well.

At some point I think there was a compiled forth. Anyone recall?

Iron

@jjrochow "Max: do you know anything about System-C?" Not to program in, but I know a bit -- my understanding is that it's like regular C but with some extra data types and also with the concept of time. If you try to represent things at thr Register Transfer Level (RTL) it's not tremendouisly efficient ... but it gets more efficient as you move higher in abstraction. It's used a lot to generate Transaction-Level Models (TLMs) which are good for greating virtual prototypes and testbenches and stuff

Blogger

I think the time adjustmnt has become different from this week onwards for Indai

Iron

Back to the VHDL issue..

Max: System-C?

why is easy: because it's there and one can :-D

Iron

I've played around with different Forth 80 implementations and also a bit with retroforth a while ago. I smuggled in a tiny retroforth app into some software running at a service provider for a "large german car manufacturer" :-D

Iron

I have seen Forth systems written in Java. Why?? I don't know.

Peter Grogono's Mouse language is another model I use from time-to-time.

Iron

@snandu13 "Am I late today?" Yes    "I am from India?" Is that a question? (grin)

Blogger

Is forth still being developed by anyone?

Iron

Gotcha, thanks Max!

Iron

I have also met him..several times.

Max: do you know anything about System-C?

My first forth was a series of magazine articles, Z80 assy and was modified to run with CPM on a TRS80 I.

Iron

I met the guy who invented Forth -- clever chap

Blogger

You can get a starter FPGA development board (with free downloadabl etools) for around $50 ... I may even have seen one for $29

Blogger

@snandu13- Yeah, but Max is still on if you have any questions for him

 

Iron

@clia -- re your question about GPUs -- as you say, although they have lots (sometimes hundreds) of cores, the cores themselves are relatively simplistic -- having said theis they each have local memory and sophisticated fixed-point capability (I think some may even be floating-point these days) -- do it depemnds on your program -- if the program is ammenable to being partitioned across hundreds of processors then you can see orders of magnitude speed up -- but it woudl have to be the right sort of program

Blogger

thanks, matt68, will do

Iron

Am I late today? I am from India?

Iron

@s.schmiedl, I remember seeing hobbyist kits for FPGAs awhile back. I'm pretty sure you can get started for pretty cheap. Try http://www.fpga4fun.com/FPGAsoftware1.html

Iron

OK, you found out, I like forth and have for quite a while now.

Iron

@gschmick: Silicon laboratories SI10xx or Si4010, TI CC430, ...

Iron

DanlaFleur: I take it that you are a Forth fan.

@richwilliams "I just ordered your book!"

I love you like th ebrother I never had (of course I do have a brother, but you are the one I never had :-)

Blogger

Re the questions about programming. Antifuse FPGAs are programmed one time off-board and cannot then be reprogrammed. Flash devices are programmed on-board (typically) -- they will power-up instant on, but they can be reprogrammed. SRAM-based devuces have to be reprogrammed every time the board is powered up. Thsi can come from an external flash memory chip or a number of other techniques. A hybrid-flash/SRAM device powers up and performs a massively paralled copy from th eflash to the SRAM -- so it appears to be instant on -- also the Flash can be reprogrammed while the chip is still running using its SRAM configuration .... Phew!

Blogger

Thanks for the presentation - I just ordered your book!

@Max - I heard that the reason you can have so many cores in a GPU was because of the simplistic nature of the logic they represent; instead using higher order math, they break this down into many more simple logic steps that they can then attack with the numerous cores.  Does this require the programs to be rewritten in order to help the GPUs understand what they have to accomplish?

Iron

Thanks Max,

Reminds me of the Advanced uP Course taken through Heath/Zenith back in the day.

Iron

imagine, an FPGA for a dollar, with a stack based execution engine, extensible dictionary with a small handfull of primitive operations :-)

Iron

Max:  Good presentation, however, there *are* quite a few ASICs that do not have a processor on them.  There is a pretty good price hit for including a processor since it requires licensing and silicon area and often extra pins which means a larger package.

Iron

Question for Max: Which uC's have built-in RF sections?

Iron

Thanks Max and Alex, see all tomorrow.

Iron

oooh... where can I get a cheap FPGA "for a dollar" with necessary programming kit for learning this stuff?

Iron

Great Session, thank you.

Iron

see you everyone tomorrow

Iron

Max: Since MPUs are so slow, compared to FBGA solutions, how to make sense of the mix? Multiprocessors only, or even single CPU will make sense?

Iron

thanks Max, great presentation

Iron

Max, thank you, amazing presentation.

Iron

Thanks Max.  We look forward to connecting with you tomorrow.

Iron

THIS LECTURE clears up up a lot of questions and creates some more questions...

GREAT!!!

Thanks Max and Alex!

Iron

Great presentation today, Max, thanks!

Iron

Thank you, I did not know that.  No wonder they are so much harder to get into basic designs.

Iron

Thanks, Max. Good presentation as always.  See you tomorrow.

@tstout - I think that is the case.  I can't help but wonder if that is why the new fuel system design for NASCAR Sprint Cup causes the drivers so many headaches trying to restart a stalled engine.  They have power down, power back up (reboot?), wait (reload programming?), the try restarting the engine.  Are they using FPGAs?

Iron

Max, can you speak about a hardware design toolset called System-C?

 

Thanks for a great session Max!

@tstout, The SRAM and Hybrid-SRAM FPGAs get reprogrammed every time.  The others are programmed once.

Iron

@tstout - fpga is prog at power up from a flash

Iron

Is there really a difference between a SoC and a microcontroller anymore? You can pretty much create either with an FPGA

Iron

I like your sense of humor, Clive!

Iron

Boolean and Gumbo!! How do you go wrong?!

 

Iron

Slide 27: Does this FPGA programming happen everytime it is powered up?  You are saying it in not hard programmed into the device where it can stand alone.

Iron

@slk - Seems logical to me.

Iron

@ran - it is the easiest way to "model" your future chip

Iron

I believe that ASIC designers use FPGAs to develop the various blocks of their ASICs.

Iron

Hi, everyone, sorry I'm so late. Missed the summer saving time on a "day off".

Iron

I still have a dog-eared "starting forth" somewhere. also "thinking forth".

Iron

oh dear ... 30 years, Brodie's "starting forth" was published 82, I just saw.

Iron

Q: Which uC's have built-in RF sections?

Iron

lots of good ideas in forth ... the current "use a DSL" fad has been well documented in forth for over 20 years

Iron

@danlfleur - forth ? not worth it

Iron

Thoght so, I was looking around for ideas and keep going back to something forth like.

Iron

I once built a self-contained well monitor using an AIM-65 and forth.

Iron

fascinating, what crc comes up with

Iron

yep, I did dabble around a bit a while ago.

Iron

@s.schmiedl, any relation to retroforth?

Iron

assembly is the one true way, and forth is its prophet ;->

Iron

I programmed the Siemens 8085 in Machine Code when I studied Electronics Engineering

Iron

yes, my first uP course had us hand assemble the program. very tedious.

Iron

Sorry.  Slip of the keyboard.  Slide 4.

Iron

steven - yes i agree...

Iron

Eugene - Likely give too many people too many opportunities to screw it up. 

Avoid it altogther??

Iron

what slide are we on?

Iron

@rstmg1 - yes audion loud and clear

Iron

Yes, audio is ok. Try F5...

Iron

@rstmg1 - yes, refresh, if you dont hear it (F5)

Iron

oops, looks like I lost some fingers along with the hour :-)

Iron

Hello all.

Do we have audio now?

Iron

@gpapich, I've started experimerimenting with Arduino a while ago. Great little system to work with and readily available.

Iron

Good afternoon all, Great day in the Northeast US

Iron

@steven - haha, same here. do you think it would be better maybe to move gradually, like 15 minutes in 4 days? :D

Iron

Re:Anyone messing around with Arduino controllers?

Yes, I've been using them over a network with LabVIEW.

Iron

I am using Arduino in a classroom setting

Iron

Anyone messing around with Arduino controllers?

 

Iron

Hi, Max - looking forward to today's session.

Iron

Good afternoon, Alex.

 

Iron

Good afternoon folks!

 

Iron

Eugene - I'm suffering from the loss of that hour here in Michigan

Iron

@Zwilrich, Thanks, Never thought of that.

Iron

Hello everyone

 

Iron

Hello Eugene in Edmonton -- I have a bunch of aunts, uncles, and cousins living up there...

Blogger

Hello everyone.  It's good to be back.  Been look'n forward to the next round.

Iron

hello everyone. its a good day here in edmonton, except for the post-dst-set-your-clock-one-hour-forward thing ;)

Iron

hello from sunny MIAMI

@dengst, Try one of the archived classes.  If the audio works for one of those, it should work for this one.

Iron

densgt, the audio usually starts at 2:00pm sharp with the intro. I'm not sure how to check before that except for any local audio source on your computer.

Iron

How long before the start time is the audio started (so I can check if it's working before the start)?

Iron

Joe, check the "how do I graduate" link at the top of this page. Also " my grades" for current scoreing.

Iron

Where to find requirements for "a course diploma"?

 

Good morning all. Does anyone else hate "spring forward" like I do? It doesn't really help much here in Edmonton where it will soon start greying around 4:00am with maggpies screeching at first light.

Iron

Hi Alex, good to see you again.

Iron

Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger


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