Interesting comment that RT systems must be deterministic. Many of the scheduling algorithms fall into the NP class -- which is non-deterministic -- or so I would think.
Advanced / Future FPGA's look intriguing. What power ratings are we looking at? Heatsinks, Fans?
As the tools develop for FPGA's with hardware library and algorithm libraries and perhaps more graphical or model based design they may be viable depending on non-recurring and recurring costs.
Same comments on 'self documenting' presentation - please consider separate slides for your verbal descriptions to capture your presentation for later reference -- all good stuff still ...
The P.I.D. algorithm question's answer should note that PID filers are or should be made to be 'tunable'. It comes back to the issues of accuracy and precision (how close to the exact set point do you need to get and stay without oscillation for example). The startup problem like also 'special cases' is usually also addressed in all PID algorithms. Choosing a 'P' - proportional setting such as 50% which is halfway between the starting point (first measurement) and desired point (temperature, fill position etc.) implements a sort of 'binary search' to move closer to the set point. In seeking the set point, now the parameters for 'I' Integral which is a sort of running average, and 'D' Derivative which is the slope or rate of change can be determined. In addition, prior knowledge of the controllers and sensors and other elements in the control system help to determine values for PID set points. There are many good tutorials on PID and PID tuning online - enjoy!
Side note -- Labview has FPGA capabilities - see for example http://www.ni.com/fpga/ or do a web search as there are other specific white papers/app notes and information online in general and at National Instruments (NI's) website.
Someone said "Max, what is deiferences between Verilog HDL and FPGA?"
HDL stands for Hardware Description Language. Unlike programming languages like C and C+ (which are inherently sequential in nature), a HDL is designed to represent the way in which hardware works -- concurrentkly, which means that multiple things can be happening at the same time.
We use HDLs like Veriloh, VHDL, SystemVeriloh, or UDL/I (from Japan) to capture the intent of our design -- then we use logic synthesis to take this high-level representation and generate a gate-level equivalent.
ASICs and FPGAs are silicon chips -- we use the gate-level output from the systhesis tool to either (a) build a new ASIC or (b) program / configure an FPGA.... thsi is a simplistic description but I hope it helps
As a constructive criticism, it would be helpul toshow for each bullet, the talking points being discussed. Coming from a classical bkground, I'm trying to picture the ladder during the several minutes that the topic is being discussed... looking at only the highlighted topic. When we get to a meatty slide, Max says it is too complicated and moves on. Other times I'm staring at a pretty box for several minutes while the guts of the box is what I'm trying to picture. Also, I like my achronyms defined in print at least once. Sometimes the presentation appears at a very high level, good for the boardroom, less so for practitioners. Every sentence had an "ah". Having said all that, I'm grateful for the program. ggg
@MazianLab: As a simple analogy, think of it this way: Verilog HDL is to the C programming language what a FPGA is to the Intel (or Freescale or whoever...) processor
Spmeone said: "I join Mr.E's request - a case study (in advanced course) sounds like a great idea.."
Let me think about this -- no promises -- it depends on how much time I have available (of course if you want to write it ... which is ithe point that people usually stop asking :-)
Do a net Search for "Inside machines: PC vs PLC: Comparing control options" Very good article in the www.controleng.com website domain
If you do another such search using Yahoo or other on article "Cover story: Balancing PLCs, PACs, IPCs " ; you should also find this within the same website domain listed above
Someone said "all the advantages brought by self-modfying FPGAs carry the cost of much more need for security. Or you'll end up with "easter egg" control settings that shut down the production line"
Make sure you come back for the Safety and Security part of our course tomorrow :-)
@syakovac, "virtual peripherals"! I like the idea of high speed hw and programmable configurations. A small example is a fairly fast uC Parallax SX chip and peripheral blocks defined in software. The uC can keep up quite well with normal applications.
Someone said "I'm still unclear as to why one would use FPGAs to emulate SoC when the SoC already exists in hardware"
I think it's more a case of when you are designing a new PLC or PAC or SBC for an industrial control application -- if there's already an exuisting SoC (ASIC / ASSP / whatever) that does everything you want then you woudl use it. But if the existing SoC doesn;t do what you want ... it will cost millions of dollars and at least 18 months to develop a new one -- or you can get an off-the-shelf FPGA and program it to do whatever you want it to do...
all the advantages brought by self-modfying FPGAs carry the cost of much more need for security. Or you'll end up with "easter egg" control settings that shut down the production line.
Just a request: if not tomorrow, then maybe in the Advanced course in a couple of weeks, could you run a case study from requirements to implementation and emphasize the design trades you made and the reasons for each, so we can get our arms around when to use a PAC, when a PLC is good enough, and when the added power of an FPGA or SBC justifies the increased complexity and risk?
@danlafleur -- I have wanted to make a uC/FPGA system with some flash storage capable of "loading" high powered peripherals from the storage. I think there could be some advantages to be had but I have not seen the project that wants it yet so I have not tried the experiement.
@Max: Would you be able to discuss any control system architecture - either a PLC, PAC or DCS. with actual connections ( Field devices-junction box, analog/digital marshalling cabinets, buses, controllers, HMI) ? Or upload any ref. materials ?
Someone said "Guess I'm resistant to new technology. I didn't think much of transistors in the 60's either!"
I know folks who grew up with vacuum tubes and couldn;t make the transition to transistors. And I know guys who designed digital logic with transistors but thought 74-series logic gate ICs were too confusing and wouldn;t switch...
@Island_Al Yes, I agree with you for low runners vs. high runners for volume. Large runners tend to like ASICS and dedicated hardware. FPGAs can be piecewise expensive but I am seeing them come down and Altera has even tried to make it so that you can "convert" to an ASIC with a different press of the large gree button.
Thanks Max. I would have liked more on the SmartFusion types of devices that are integrating some configurable analog blocks. Still, good presentation.
@syakovac Makes sense in larger volume equipment, but I think more of runs of 5 to 10 units. Thanks for your explaination. Guess I'm resistant to new technology. I didn't think much of transistors in the 60's either!
Someone asked "Max, any thoughts on FPGA self-modifying code similar to uP/uC self-modigying code?"
Thsi is a very interesting area. Th eoriginal FPGAs could only be programmed in their entirity. Morte recently we have "partial reconfifuration" in which some parts of the FPGA keep on running while others are being reconfigured. When I was in Norway 2 weeks ago visiting th eUniversity of Oslo I saw some amazing things in this area. The problem this is a big topic in its own right -- way to complex to go into detail here (especiallc considering th efac tthat I am a two-fingered hunt-and-peck) typist
@Island_Al, I have seen some spins of the PCB but a lot of spins with the FPGA code in my past (Tektronix) and even fixes for field failures on existing products that cannot have PCB changes.
Given all of the attention to security (or a lack of) for SCADA, is there a future for SCADA or will SCADA be sunset along with other obsolete technologies?
Someone asked "What is the difference between L2 Cache and L3 Cache?"
Well, 3 -2 = 1 (grin)
Actually it's all a matter of proiximity and size. The L1 cach is spall, extremely fast, and tightyly coupled to the processor core(s). Th eL2 cache is bigger, not quite as fast, and a bit father away. And if you have an L3 cache its even bigger and a bit slower and even father away...
For DCS (distributed control systems) plant automation an added consideration is interfacing these systems through the OPC ( Object Linking and Embedding for Process control) Standards for Industry.
Max, any thoughts on FPGA self-modifying code similar to uP/uC self-modigying code? I know it's dangerous in some applications. I'm just wondering if it's possible with current technology.
@syakovac While the FPGA can be changed easily, you still need pinouts, thus a new PCB. When I layout a PCB I use extra IO pins as spare for the uC chip.
@Island_AI, you can field update the FPGA and it is quick and easy to develop (much more like software development) than the big think and wait spin of PCB or ASIC development
I'm still unclear as to why one would use FPGAs to emulate SoC when the SoC already exists in hardware and one would simply add the program rather than define the SoC in the FPGA and then still have to add the program. What advantage am I missing here? Perhaps by adding the hardware accelerator to perform higher precision or fast math? It "seems" like one-off cost would climb rapidly using FPGAs.
@syakovac: a couple of reasons to choose the simpler options like PLC or PAC might be cost (make vs. buy decision) or certifications (a commercially available unit may already have needed certifications that might be costly and/or time-consuming to achieve with a proprietary design based in an FPGA or SBC).
Yes.. you see,..if you get hold of one microcontroller good..it can do everything.. adc, opamp, dac,..interrups, daqing... why another PLC.. We really need to know the advantage of PLC over other means.
Has anybody used the SmartFusion device? What is the fitting limit like? I have had bad experiences with Altera needing a larger part than Xilinx. How does Actel stack up?
I'm interested mainly in event-driven (discrete-event) systems and control and eventually in hybrid (time-driven and event-driven) systems and control. Could you recommend some engineering tools (similar to Matlab/Simulink for classical (continuous and discrete_time systems) - simulation and model-based design) for event_driven and hybrid systems which could also automatically generate code for certain processors (PLC, microcontrollers, microcprocessors, FPGA, etc.) or intermediate code (C, Ladder, FBD, etc. )? Thank you.
The nice thing about Verilog is that it is so similar to C that you probably already know Verilog with a few small syntax issues and then the monumental task of thinking in parallel.
DCS and PLC have been around for a long time. I think DCS can be associated with process control (continuous and batch). PLC is more associated with machine control. It doesn't mean they don't cross domains.
raghu, lots of applications in oil & gas gathering area with multiple wells pressures & flows be fed to common control room. Not much need for control, but data required for plant control
@Joe... "master-slave" implies no problems with coordination (master coordinates the slaves)... the real problem is in coordination across the peers (no master to resolve the conflicts, etc...)
For DCS (distributed control systems) plant automation an added consideration is interfacing these systems through the OPC ( Object Linking and Embedding for Process control) Standards for Industry.
@cook429667: I had perfect audio during the first course with Jon Titus back in January, then my organization blocked it before the second course started (without notice of course). There were no overt errors reported until I tried to access blogtalkradio.com directly from my browser. You may want to try that. Now I listen on my phone instead.
Sound didn't start immideately for me. I restarted broweser then it started about two minutes after I signed back in. It's always worked immediately in the past.
If you have no audio, check that you can go to http://www.blogtalkradio.com/contactus.aspx. I have no audio because my IT blocks that site. I can sometimes listen after the class is over
I remember seeing a video about a smart warehouse, where they had a "heat map" of the placement of the stored items. They were reorganized on the fly by usage, and you could see "hot" stuff wander to the outer sides.
Looking over my notes, I remebered that Quartus (Altera) has a very good interactive tutorail on FPGAs and how to use all of the controllers, including m-files and design consoles to build them in virtual mode, plus test equipment to view operation.
today's slidepack looks "strange" quite a few slides that we have seen before (2-7) and multiple instances of the same slide (8-13)... the only new (different) content is 14-23...
It's fascnating to watch how normal PLCs are configured in pairs for safety applications. In a complete process automation system which has both PLCs and DCS, PLC can be programmed to stop distibuted control system applications to stop a running plant (of course in emergency situations). PLCs sure are amazing.
The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.
Thanks Chris, I had a look at the pdf. It's interesting and deserves more time. This reminds me of the movie War Games where WOPR tries all possible solutions for an acceptable outcome. (the only solution was not to play).
Do a net Search for "Inside machines: PC vs PLC: Comparing control options" Very good article in the www.controleng.com website domain
If you do another such search using Yahoo or other on article "Cover story: Balancing PLCs, PACs, IPCs " ; you should also find this within the same website domain listed above
There were some questions yesterday about Genetic Algorithms and their practical applications. They can be used to solve very complex problems, but as Max described they will find a suitable solution but it might not be the absolute best.
Here is a link to an Altera website that includes a PDF describing a high level understanding for their fitting algorithms for their FPGAs. In it they describe how they use the GA Annealing for determining a best solution for routing an FPGA.
By experimenting with the photovoltaic reaction in solar cells, researchers at MIT have made a breakthrough in energy efficiency that significantly pushes the boundaries of current commercial cells on the market.
In a world that's going green, industrial operations have a problem: Their processes involve materials that are potentially toxic, flammable, corrosive, or reactive. If improperly managed, this can precipitate dangerous health and environmental consequences.
With LEDs dropping in price virtually every year, automakers have begun employing them, not only on luxury vehicles, but on entry-level models, as well.
From Dell / Intel® New Paradigms in Design Work Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013 5
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
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A quick look into the merger of two powerhouse 3D printing OEMs and the new leader in rapid prototyping solutions, Stratasys. The industrial revolution is now led by 3D printing and engineers are given the opportunity to fully maximize their design capabilities, reduce their time-to-market and functionally test prototypes cheaper, faster and easier. Bruce Bradshaw, Director of Marketing in North America, will explore the large product offering and variety of materials that will help CAD designers articulate their product design with actual, physical prototypes. This broadcast will dive deep into technical information including application specific stories from real world customers and their experiences with 3D printing. 3D Printing is
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