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RadioGuy
User Rank
Gold
Re: Precession soldering
RadioGuy   3/1/2012 12:29:25 PM
Precession soldering?

You mean they rotate the board while it is hot in the flow soldering channel?

And the board is wobbling as it rotates? Good Lord - no wonder they have quality problems!

Martin.Stoehr
User Rank
Iron
Re: Faulty windows a result of the accident?
Martin.Stoehr   3/1/2012 4:52:21 PM
NO RATINGS
Martin.Stoehr
User Rank
Iron
Re: Faulty windows a result of the accident?
Martin.Stoehr   3/1/2012 5:04:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Now I may have to retract my last post after reading a little more on the subject.  Sorry about that--I am always the skeptic, sometimes in the wrong direction.

anatech
User Rank
Iron
Re: Faulty windows a result of the accident?
anatech   3/1/2012 5:23:57 PM
NO RATINGS
Hi Jim

"One very prominent manufacturer of aftermarket parts boasts that they re-engineered the part to eliminate the failure modes. Their replacement part can be had for as little as $43.00.

Which would you buy?"


In this case, a GM that I would repair the lamp in.  :)

To answer a question like this, most of us require a lot more information to go on.  After considering my experiences with well over 25 cars, the answer is easy.  BTW, look at the "Black" or "Red" book values on cars after they are 5 years old.  That is a reasonably reliable indicator on how much that model is worth.

You may have guessed our family has a lot of experience in the auto industry, and you would be right.  In this case, that door was probably taken off another vehicle and maybe repainted to match.  That is common practice and there is normally nothing wrong with that.  And yes, the vehicle the door came from had this fault from when it was brand new.  But, the used door is better than yours repaired in this case.  The original door would never have been the same, and probably have been very noisy.


Other cars to consider?  A KIA (one saved my life) or BMW.  Saab makes a really cool car too, and they are quiet at speed (not a surprise considering they make fighter planes too).

 

-Chris




Larry M
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Faulty windows a result of the accident?
Larry M   3/1/2012 5:56:31 PM
NO RATINGS
anatech wrote:

"One very prominent manufacturer of aftermarket parts boasts that they re-engineered the part to eliminate the failure modes. Their replacement part can be had for as little as $43.00.

Which would you buy?"

In this case, a GM that I would repair the lamp in.  :)"

Uhhh, I don't think so. The assembly consists of two pieces of plastic bonded together so well that they can only be separated destructively. I am going to cut two failed assemblies open to determint the exact failure modes, but these will not be suitable for reassembly.

I've repaired a lot of "non-repairable" things, and will probably repair these, but they won't be reusable.

Anatech also wrote:

"Saab makes a really cool car too, ..."

Uhhh, yeah. Click and Clack (Tom and Ray Magliozzi) described Saab as a car put together by designers who never looked at how anyone else was doing it. Battery under the driver's seat? Clutch out in front, under the radiator? How about those 1998-2001s which all had the premature transmission failure that required a $2700 replacement unit. There was a reason why GM dumped them, and a reason why no one else would have them.

 

 

 

Larry M
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Faulty windows a result of the accident?
Larry M   3/1/2012 5:58:04 PM
NO RATINGS
Found the actual photographs, did you, Martin? Very scary, aren't they.

JSRL
User Rank
Iron
HONDA WINDOW
JSRL   3/1/2012 6:11:54 PM
NO RATINGS
I know and worked with the author of this report and can testify that he is one heck of a good engineer. 

John Lawrence

anatech
User Rank
Iron
Re: Faulty windows a result of the accident?
anatech   3/1/2012 6:44:53 PM
NO RATINGS
Hi Larry,

You wouldn't believe what I have successfully repaired.  When it comes to cars, the cost serves as effective motivator!  All the repair needs to do is work, and fit mechanically where the original did (looking nice helps too).  That being said, all cars have their problems.  The best you can do is to buy the ones that hurt you the least on average.

All companies have a "corporate personality".  That does not tend to change much over the years unless a company comes down with a fatal case of "bean counters".  Then all bets are off!

I'm going to guess that you haven't actually driven a Saab.  I have, and unless you have spent a few hours in a car driving over a large distance, you really don't know anything about it at all.  Take care when reading reports from magasine writers though.  That applies to most consumer products as well.

 

Back to the topic at hand though ...

I think Thomas did some excellent detective work and solved his problem rather than dinging Honda for it.  There will always be isolated cases where extremely odd faults are found.  Now, who's at fault here?  Does it matter if it is an isolated case?

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Solder blamed for faulty window operation
William K.   3/1/2012 10:17:54 PM
Why in the world does a car need multiple PC board assemblies to control the windows operation? That is certainly a case of feature-bloat, and clearly at the cost of reliability. Power windows functioned quite well enough in the 1960s, the application of microcontrollers does not provide benefits worthy of the increase in coasts and the reduction in reliability.

IT certainly did take some determined good trouble diagnostics to figure out where to look to fix the fault and repair the system.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Solder blamed for faulty window operation
Rob Spiegel   3/2/2012 3:47:06 PM

I think you hit the important point on this, William. Questionable improvements may come with reliability problems. So the increased risk of failure due to increased complexity may not be justified. Additional cost just tips the scale that much more toward simple, reliable systems.  

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