Thanks Max & Alex

Great sesion, Thank you

FPGA plus ARM or PIC is flexibility and low cost. uCU as a compute brain control and FPGA is just traffic interface.

Hi from OR

There are systems that tolerate chaotic behavior. Humans create quite a lot of chaos by starting jobs in the wrong order and using the wron materials -- for example. Then there are machine breakdowns, power loss and material problems. Systems that channel this chaotic behavior and return the system to a "known" state are the next generation.

How do you compare controller based automation to PC-based automation (using real-time operating system)

What is the main difference between PLC and PAC?

FPGA's are commonly developed in a coding language (e.g. Verilog / VHDL) which brings up it's own discipline and issues similar to embedded coding with 'C'.  Schematic level entry was done away with long ago it seems.  This makes LabView graphical programming seem more attractive.  Not to diminish the power and capability of FPGA's at all.

Open loop control sounds dangerous, though I understand the simple washing machine example.

Still, sensors are employed (as simple inputs) to determine "lid open", "water level" and such like.  We could also hypothesize the boundary condition failure mechanisms in terms of a stalled motor that burns out the drivers, 'a sock in the drain pump motor' and such like.  Perhaps it depends on the definition of "open loop" and what 'feedback' vs. 'input sensing' one is talking about ...

process feedback on slide 14: would fuzzy logic (simple thresholding) statement state machine be an implementation option ??   

Good presentation, I would prefer to see, rather than hear some of the additional information, for example:

* Slide with "machine process level" -- each topic (conditioning, HMI, Motor control ... safety and security etc) should have its own slide with sub-bullets (rather than verbal mention)

* slide 16 - more detailed (show on slide - input signal types, output types, feedback signals, and locations of process and control elements

* slide 17 -- bullet the spoken info in terms of types of linear systems
* slide 18 -- bullet sample non-linear problems / applications on slide

Looking forward to how this evolves in future presentations ...

Thanks, Max, another very good lecture.  You mention Linear and Non-Linear in your last two slides.  Do any control situations arise where the transfer function is non-monotonic?  It would seem to me that that would be a horrific interface....

Thanks. Brings back some memories of working in chemical process control in the 70's.

At that time and that company, there was a mixture of relay logic, NorPak (Allen Bradley?), and Digital Equipment PDP-8 and PDP-11 controllers. I remember helping an engineer program in a language known as Boole, where ladder diagram segments were the printed output documentation (to help electricians troubleshoot the systems) for the boolean statements we were writing.

Hello al

thanks again.

Another well done presentation.

Slides are good too.

good point

hi everyone

asdf

Great presentation, Max!

@Max: Good one! But.....'We never use "student" systems, but just dive into the end item design and flog the employees till its done!' was typed by "Island_AI" and not me. Yeah, there can be confusions when many are responding at the same time. Anyway, looking forward to another great session tomorrow.

Bye everyone. e-C U tomorrow

Thank you Max!

Thanx and tchau, Max!

bye

OK -- I really have to run or I'll be late for my son's school =-- C U tomorrow

@Ranjitha  "@Max: I think you meant to respond to Island_Al"

I was responding to him -- I was just suggesting that your company be in charge of the floggings:-)

Cn someone tell me how to answer to a specific post?

@I don't even think Altera and Xilix are "makers" of FPGA.

Well -- they don;t own their own foundry -- but they are in charge of designing them -- I know a guy at Xilinx who hand-crafts the masks (well, portions of them) used to create the chips...

@Max: I think you meant to respond to Island_Al

I don't even think Altera and Xilix are "makers" of FPGA.

@When I say die, we spent several thou on early Altera, 10 years ago or more, now it is scrap.

I'm sure they are very sorry -- but I will chastise them soundly the next time I talk to them - -maybe we can hand this over to Ranjitha who can be incharge of th eflogging party :-)

There is also another article "Cover story: Balancing PLCs, PACs, IPCs " at  www.controleng.com just do a search for topic from yahoo or other  

@ The difficult problem is to figure out which technology will die.

The answer is all of them -- I think you mean "which will die sooner rather than later" :-)

When I say die, we spent several thou on early Altera, 10 years ago or more, now it is scrap.

MAX: what makes an FPGA maker better than another? You may want to discourse about the best 3 players.

Fieldbus also belongs to family of industrial protocols. It has replaced conventional wiring(not completely).

OK -- I'm sorry to have to run -- but I'm expected at my son's high school to discuss his courses for next year -- I hope to see you all again tomorrow when we will cover really cool stuff like Genetic Algorithms :-)

The difficult problem is to figure out which technology will die.

Do a net Search for  "Inside machines: PC vs PLC: Comparing control options" Very good article at www.controleng.com  website

@Ranjitha "We never use "student" systems, but just dive into the end item design and flog the employees till its done!"

I think I used to be one of those employees :-)

If you plan on playing with FPGA development boards, you might also want to check out which books on Amazon support which boards...

FPGA: Hardware or Software: Today, with Flash memory to store a matrix of logic flow (another way of referring to s software in memory) there is no difference between a software based systems and a digital electronic, for the program in memory is just another way of weaving the interconnection of more basic digital fabric, perhaps deisigned with even discrete gates. :o)

Personally I woudl say Industrial Ethernet ... there's also ControlNet and DeviceNet .... and Modbus, Profibus, EtherCAT...

Thanks Max for your answers to my questions.  As of now, the thought is FPGA programming aspect to be software and once it is locked (assuming you decouple the on the fly reprogramming) as hardware. 

It gets more interesting when you look at a company like Impulse Accelerated Computing (ImpulseC.com) who have a C-to-RTL (think "C-to-FPGA") compiler - -their inpout is ANSI standard C (they have a library of fumctions they've created you can use also)

What is the most popular standard communication protocol used in industrial controls? out of 50 protocols you mentioned?

Lattice FPGA Development Kit USD49 for everyone:

http://www.latticesemi.com/products/developmenthardware/developmentkits/xp2brevia2developmentkit.cfm

Thanks Max. Great refresher.

Thank you

@JM When would you consider an FPGA to be hardware vs. software?

That's such a tricky one -- let's make sure we all understand how thsi usually goes. You start with RTL like Verilog or VHDL that describes a hardware function -- then you use synthesis to conver tthsi into a gate-level netlist that gets loaded into the FPGA. The thing is that you roriginal RTL can include the code that describes a soft processor core, which you can then us eto execure conventional programs... so you tell me ... where do we draw the line?

Cheap FPGA developement board was posted by RMilewicz:

Thanks!

Hello

Thanks Max, good series

Thanks Max.

We never use "student" systems, but just dive into the end item design and flog the employees till its done!

Re the questions of wher eto get cheap FPGA development boards -- check out Altera and Lattice Semiconductor and Xilinx websites

When would you consider an FPGA to be hardware vs. software?

BTY, i'll have a look at all of the helpful links and sources for FPGA development later today. Thanks.

Thanks for one more great lecture!

@Ranjintha "Would you be discussing Distributed Control systems (DCS) and their comparision with the PLCs?"

I'm sure I will :-)

Thanks Max for another entertaining and worthwhile session today. See all tomorrow.

thanks all

Digilent Basys™2 Spartan-3E FPGA Board USD49 for US students

http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,790&Prod=BASYS2

@Jim "what is your thought on dual core FPGA for diverisity?"

The thing about an FPGA is that you can program multiple soft cores into it (literally thousands of 8-bit cores or 10s of 32-bit cores -- and then we have devices that contain one or two hard cores...

@slk- the evals systems Ive seem appear to be very limited overall.

Thx Max

thank you.

Thanks you

Thanks Alex and Max

Thanks, everyone. Max will be on here in a sec.

@Alexander Wolfe - You asked good questions.  Your questions are the same questions we here in the audience have.

Would you be discussing Distributed Control systems (DCS) and their comparision with the PLCs?

Thank you Max!

Excellent presentation

I wish you hadore time to atlk.

Thanks Clive, for the information

@slk- Altera seems to be a lot of bucks, micros or controllers are cheap.

@stev@HA - Micrium has undergone a stringent approval process to qualify their credentials.  Some applications that are safety critical or medically critical require these certifications, and Micrium is one of those RTOSs available.

@krhohio - NFPA = National Fire Protection Association

great idea about MCU. they seem to be the pocket version of the simple computers back then. OK, the ZX81 could fit into a pocket, but the old trash 80 is a lot bigger.

what is your thought on dual core FPGA for diverisity?

Yes You are right. ASICs are replaced with FPCA of late

@Ran: If you're an Apple, IBM, etc the quantity price (100K) of ASIC's is much less over the life of the product.

@ Island_Al - most of the time no

@luizcosta - Thanks.

dan, we _can_ go back: scrap the desktops and go program MCUs :-)

Do not FPGAs take much longer (and high cost) to develop in a one off application?

@snandu13 & danlafleur - the chipest fpga board I bought was 150$

 Scalability costs PAC vs PLC

s.schmiedl, you can't go back. I miss the time when we could understand every part of these simple machines. I did put together a forth interpreter/compiler under CPM on a TRS80 I, such a long time ago.

@snandu13 - none

Grey area differences PLC vs PACs

One one corner had a bunch of out of service robots meant initially to shuttle the parts around

@danlafleur: The one thing I regret from my teens is not buying the FORTH ROM for that thing... it would have rocked with the 16 kB RAM extension that I had :-)

Which is the company that gives 50 dollar FPGA dev Board?

older systems, typical 120VAC high power, as compared to 24VDC systems low power and interfacing costs with really put price rise to installations

And some factories are both at the same time.

I once visited the remmington arms factory in ilion NY

One section was older with dark alleys the other section was

bright with a bunch of programmable CNC machines

Max, this is a great way to introduce folks to control systems (industrial control in particular). A simple but generic way to put the students in perpective of the current real world context.

I'll look at avnet.

Earlier, someone asked why an expensive ASIC would be used when FPGAs are so much less expensive.  Did that question ever get answered?

Biggest issue is integration of pre 1980s technology to new systems

@danlafleur - avnet

great lecture, thanks...

ProfiSafe, ASisafe Siemens technology, or even Safety rated PLCs with passcoded locks

:)

wow, someone else remembers a zx81! I still haver mine.

Thank you for today's lecture

Great session, thanks Max, Alex, and Frank

slk, thanks, available at digikey i think.

 Move to Integated safety systems with Basic process control system - Same communications backbone

Anyone in Northern California online?  Not Silicon Valley IT-specific...

@danlafleur - there are a lot for xilinx chips.

Thanks Max!

@Max: What would be the "Sinclair ZX81" of FPGAs in todays market? Affordable for hobbyist, not too complex, but still able to produce something really useful.

Doing this series as a former naval officer with test officer experience, with little formal systems engineering training.  B.S. History with minor in general engineering.  Looking to create robotic manufacturing in support of U.S. re-shoring movement.

Thanks Max

thank you Max,

I may count the number of times "FPGA" was mentioned in this session. A side effect is that I'm going to look for an inexpensive FPGA developer's kit.

Thanks Max.

Need for programming via HMIuser-interface to define various control function blocks. Requirement for Object linking

Thanks Max, excellent presentation

Thank you for a great session!

thanks Max

Thanks Max, good series

Great session today - thanks Max!

Thanks Max and Alex..

Max , Do you find that most of your work in controls today is MIMO or is there still a lot of work in SISO (classical) control systems?

thanks Max, good lecture

Indiana Jones:-)

Thanks for listening everyone

and FPGAs

Thanks Max

y = ax5 + bx4 cx3 dx2 ex1 f

amoung others

@kenstan -

From a hardware perspective, circuit components can be selected for considerations of temperature (high or low temps), humidity, shock, vibration, etc.  The design engineer will choose components for his/her design accordingly and test the design accordingly.  Any certification agencies will also test the design as needed.  Testing the design will be done with ovens, vibration tables and other such means.

y = mx + b

"Computed torque" is an amazing control system.

Is anyone using GPGPU's for robotics?

I think that the "PIC" line of MCU is targeted for industrial control.

Open loop is a manual control system, the communication between the output and controller is disconnected.

are there specialised MCU or DSP for this industrial control?  that can withstand harsh environment

@KevinJam: Bravo!

Design elements of a control system;

Define control objectives - operational objectives control system required to achieve; Ensure process stability, external disturbance suppression, optimizing plant economic performance.

Selecting measurements - variable measurements to monitor operational performance; primary variables for direct measurement and/or secondary variables upon which inference is derived

Select Manipulated variables / that which the controller must directly adjust to achieve process control

Select Control Configuration- Information structure used to connect available measurements to available manipulated variables. General configurations include Feedback control, Inferential control, feedforward control

Controller design: Control Law to be implemented by the controller is defined

As long as it still washes your clothes

@kenstan: cost effectiveness; open loop systems are cheap, if it is something that you don't really need a feedback system for

@clia - No problem.  I think everyone gets the idea.

Can you please  repeat the generic standard for industrial control systems?

@Ran: No, you had it right.  I posted after excusing myself, but it didn't make it up here

what is the importance of the open loop system?

feed forward/feed back control?

@clia - Thanks for that refinement.

National Electrical Code

I'm sorry, i meant NEC standards

National Fire Prevention Association

@krhohio - NFPA = National Fire Protection Association

What is NFPA?

Canbus: vehicle bus standard system

Cambus: standard bus vehicle system

What about NFPA standards?

Emergency Shutdown systems, Burner detection systems, Fire and Gas system are some examples of safety systems.

DSP appears great for upgrades to analog devices interfaces ??

RS422

robotic up rise, biggest bs ever.............

http://10rem.net/blog/2012/02/24/the-6502-processor-today has an "eye-shot" of the terminator

Dont forget the Matrix

haha, and robocop ran on dos,,,

Sheldon: another android

Ha Ha!

terminator ran on a 6502, IIRC :-D

@ JM Ashcraft  It's available there: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1589094867/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=robotisequen-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1589094867">Embedded Design Using Programmable Gate Arrays</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=robotisequen-20&l=as2&o=1&a=1589094867" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

Is Max talking about literal machine vision, or are we including the greater degree of sensitivity in sensors today?

Hi

@danlafleur: mechatronics, yes!

Same here

how it's made is a great show. i'm usually amazed at the engineering behind machines that make machines

8

Slide 8

For FPGA dev on Verilog, I'll say "Embedded Design Using Programmable Gate Arrays" Dennis Silage is a good lecture.

what slide

@ JM Ashcraft - for fpga go to xilinx or altera and chek their tutorials, etc

caa028, no, haven't seen the show, but will check it out. thanks.

@stev@HA - Micrium has undergone a stringent approval process to qualify their credentials.  Some applications that are safety critical or medically critical require these certifications, and Micrium is one of those RTOSs available.

@danlafleur - re stockpiles of stuff... seen "Doomsday preppers" on nat geo? (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/)

literature...my bad

thanks,

What makes uCOSIII ideal for safety critical systems?

ooops 7 now

slide 6

slide 6

Max, do you have any recommendation for literiture on FPGA's

Hi.  Sorry, I am late; what slide are we on?

@ danlafleur: Ha Ha! Yeah, my fridge is overflowing, but that is real estate that I already own and cannot shrink down.  I was referring more to the large warehouse type of situation: if your stock can be shrunk, and therefore your rent/warehousing costs, I am for it.  But, neglecting that, I agree with you on the lack of reliability of delivery systems on occasion.

delivery system works, supply chain is dry for many parts used in the mechanical/hydraulics sector

FPGA allow fixed time computation, garanteed task delay.

good day all

clia, I tend to agree about stock piles of stuff... until the elivery system breaks down for any one of a number of reasons. my pantry is very well stocked.

or the price to have large stock piles of inventory

good day all

You have to question the wisdom in keeping large stock piles of inventory in todays market.

"Playlist Error!"  Reload did not work.

page number at bottom of slide is great improvement

It looks like we are going into more detail with it today, though.

no

I remember seeing this slide yesterday... daja vu ?

Audio wasn't working until I reloaded- glad the hint has been posted in the past.

Student version is, at any rate

I know Xilinx is limited to how many inputs you can model

dual core arm processors - cool!

FPGA are starting to be used in nuclear industry (safety systems)

hi all,

Hi everyone.

Hi Max

hello

Looking forward for more fun (was a great lecture yesterday)

Hi Alex!

Audio is loud and clear!

hello everyone

Hi everyone.

Good Day All

Hello everyone!

Hi

No beard

I listen to yesterday's session at lunch today...fantastic

Hello y'all

Hello

Hi everyone!

Hi Max - looking forward to today's session.

hello Alex and Max

Thanks

Loud & clear

Ready to roll!

Hello All

Hi Alex.

audio start

Howdy everyone.

Here it is

Hello All

mwalls321, for me not yet.

No audio yet on my end

hi everyone

Not yet

Good afternoon

Hi all

Has the audio started?

Hello all

Lets bring more NOTES to this Perfect Course!

Will we start precisely at 14:00 EST?

good morning everyone

Alex how can we have all sessions in MP3 format? These are great references, I like to have them.

Hi everyone

Howdy folks!!

Hello...After the emergence of NI type DAQs, Are people still using PLCs / PACs for new plants?

Good afternoon

Hello All

hello from an even sunnier Tucson

Hi All

hello all from sunny miami

Alex - Curious as to how many people log into the sessions on a typical day?

Good afternoon all.

Hi, MazianLab

Hi everyone today

Hi Alex

Good morning all. Ready for another interesting and story filled session.

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