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Great lecture and good presentation. Thank you Sir Max.

Iron

thanks again for a great presentation sir max...much appreciated and well job done!

goodnight and good morning to all!  

thanks once again sir max and apologize, i need to go to bed now after your presentation today's day 1 class of basic industrial control processing...excellent job and i want to know more about the presentation till day 5 class lesson...i will be back tomorrow's night after office hour to finish the class...

thanks also to digikey and design news for giving me a chance in the continuing education to fullfill my PDH Certificate units and learning additional knowledge with respect to latest trend of technology and that's GREAT!

EXCELLENT AND GREAT PRESENTATION SIR MAX...goodnight to all and see you all tomorrow, bye...

i am now on slide 14...excellent sir max, more on elaboration about the evolution of industrial control...

i am now downloaded the slides presentation...here i am again for another continuing education...

Thank you Max, nice presentation.

Iron

Very enjoyable and informative introduction. Thank you.

Iron

Thank you for archiving this lecture.

Iron

Great lecture about history of industrial mechanisms and circuits. The topic does not directly related to my curent work, but it has very good concept of general understanding in automated control flows.

Very good seminar, I can relate directly.  My formal back ground has be electronics but over the years I have found that I needed to understand other disiplines such as mechanical and flow mechanics in the performance of my daily tasks.  Like the previous post while starting in my first postion in 1969 where I worked for a small electronics company building telephone switching equipment and having to build specialized equipment to automate manufacturing processes.  I have been lucky to have worked in manufacturing then test engineering, product engineers, design engineering and R&D.  My initall experince in manufactuing processes definately helped make me a better engineer and develop better products.

Iron

I have worked in automated manufacturing since 1968 -- where indeed we did use mini computers and the original versions of "micro processors" to automate manufacturing processes. Of course initially I was in computer manufacturing where we did indeed "eat our own dog food".

For many of us the process was integrated from design through manufacturing and automation was present at most steps -- if not all.

 

 

Iron

Nice introduction! I look forward to learning more.

Iron

Good introduction and enjoyable presentation.  It took 2 or 3 slides to 'calibrate' to the King's English.  Good history lessons too and important in establishing a solid foundation, so many have come before us, we stand on the shoulders of giants.  My favorite Clive is Clive Staples Lewis so 'Max' it is.  Jolly good show!

Very interesting and thorough lecture; great introduction to the rest of the week.

Gold

Just participated via archive, but, Magnificent, Max, Magnificent ;-)

 

Platinum

Great lecture.. Thanks...

Iron

A very good introduction, the next 4 sessons should be enlightening.

Iron

The explanation give for an Embedded SBC has great similarity in concept to Embedded software.  This SW is often so transparen to the user of a device that he is unaware that there is any SW involved in the sensor, valve or whatever.

Iron

Very enjoyable discussion.

Cheers!

 

Thanks, good presentation

 

Iron

I look forward to tomorrow's lecture

Iron

Thanks Clive; nice lecture

Iron

Are there test questions at the end of the lectures?

Iron

How expensive are FPGA's, and why are they not used more in Industrial Control Processing?

Iron

Nice Presentation. Thanks Clive.

Iron

Can I view all archived lectures?

Iron

Clive: What industry do you think use the engineering control knowledge and techniques in an intensive way?

Iron

Well, thanks anyway.

Iron

Does anyone know where to go to see the live chat/Q&A session?

Iron

I started this a little late.

Iron

Are questions still being asked on this site?

 

Iron

Thanks Clive; interesting lecture and good background information.

 

Iron

Interesting presentation Max.

Iron

Robotics is a big control system. 

Iron

In robot's world of colurse

OK, folks I'm enjoying the chat, but need to take off for a meeting.

Iron

RIGHT... INCLUDING SEVERAL VERSIONS OF BASIC.  rOBOTICS!

Clive: Do PACs include the State Sequential Machine PLCs of today?

 

Iron

what ever you're comfortable with.  It's amazing the amount of programming languages that could be used.

Iron

Rockwell s/w vs Modicon etc.

 

ok, it's back to the workbench for me, too.

Iron

Ladder logic vs Blocks vs code writting

Check the idea of the Open PLC

Control system requirments -

Suppression of external disturbance influence

Ensure the stability of the process

Optimize the performance of the process

Iron

OK Everyone -- I'm afraid we have run over the hour .... I will look through all of these questions and maybe we will find time to answer some more of them tomorrow. I do hope that you will be coming back and that I'll "see" you then...

Hoep you have a WONDERFUL rest of the day...

Blogger

Someone asked "Max, can we use C or C+ for programming the PLCs?" I'm not sure about C (although I woudl expect so), but these days you can Program PLCs using older techniques like ladder logic or more modern forms including BASIC and C

Blogger

Controling process = monitoring comparing to limits / algorythms decide of action needed > send commands to final elements / power actuators / motors / valves etc.  It was my Old Instructor intro 20 years ago. Maybe there were used other words.

Yes the web is a wonderous place for information.

Iron

Someone asked "Do Altera design FPGAs that are programable?"  The idea is that all FPGAs are programmable. There are different underlying technologies. Some are based on antifuses and thes eare one-time programmable (OTP). Others are based on SRAM and they can be programmed and reprogrammed as many times as you wish...

Blogger

Max, can we use C or C+ for programming the PLCs?

Iron

You can see many examples of the 1131 languages on the web.

Our newer controllers are much more powerful than the Logix 5564 that you showed in slide 14.

As you said our newer products use modern chip designs and are much like any other modern computer embedded device except much more durable.

Three Phase control is done by the mucroprocessors/embedded systems. The core driver for the motor will be something like a tyristor based amplifier or chopper circuit (a mix of analog components and digital swtching gear).

Iron

Max, can you show a sample or two of a "ladder logic" possibly in a future persentation?  I think a picture may be worth a thousand words here.  I'm wondering if this is something like some of the abrieviated schematics for relay controls I've seen in the past.

Iron

Re my definition of industrial control -- I think I said something like "In its most general sense – a control system is a device or set of devices that are used to manage, command, direct, or regulate the behavior of other devices, processes, or systems"

Blogger

Re "Rockwell Automation thanks you for slide 14"   They are welcome (my bill is in the post :-)

Blogger

@Max: Slide 10 - Do you have a rule-of-thumb from which evolutionary step to pick a solution to a problem? E.g. how far would you go "mechanical" before employing "relays"

Iron

Can you kindly tell us the definition of Industrial Control which you had articulated in second or third slide?

Iron

Re the question "Which type of Microcontroller is more reliable for electrical three phase speed control?"    Eeek, that's a bit specific ... I think we would really need to talk to someone in the field about this...

Blogger

I teach electromechanical controls and that was the gospel.  It is still not understood very well by the masses and the far reaching application of controls in the world today.

Iron

Part of the "equation" is how many systems are you going to create? ASICs are cost effective if you are going to deploy millions of products using them ... FPGAs are cost effective if you are thinking of only tens of thousands of units...

Blogger

Which type of Microcontroller is more reliable for electrical three phase speed control?

Iron

@Max: Never mind -- I mis-spelt Zeigler (sic) Nichols!

slide 9: A few weeks ago I had to quickly hack some glue code together to log output from a few sensors into something that SAP at the very top could refer to later on. Quality control, they said...

Iron

Q. Is there a comensurate hierarchy of control algorithms low level through to supervisory control ( diagram indicating different levels/facets of control) ?

Iron

Thanks... Very enjoyable.  A trip down memory lane!  I mean uC lane!

Iron

Rockwell Automation thanks you for slide 14

 

Someone asked about the relative costs of developoing an FPGA to an ASIC. A modern ASIC can cost 10s of millions of dollars to develop -- an FPGA is much cheaper....

Blogger

Thank you Clive, very helpfull introduction to this subject!

Iron

Thnaks Clive I look forward to tommarrow

@cmeadows6959 - ladder charts and flow charts seem to be the same basic item..???

 

You can think of it this way, but more accurately would be that ladder charts are schematics.  I hope that helps, considering this response is not a complete tutorial.

Iron

There has been lots of information behind each slide, Very interesting.Thank  yoy very much

Iron

Thank you Max and Alex. See you and all tomorrow.

Iron

Thank you for the presentation

Iron

@ horriyatm - there are hundred of boards with mcus and fpgas

Iron

Well, thank you very much everyone for your kind words

Blogger

just answer in typing

Iron

Thee history of the compontents is very helpful. Sometime knowing the theory helps in the selection of components.

This was a Big Work to cover Intro this way! And original comparing to other lecturer

 

Max: I'm looking for the parameters for the Ziegler-Nichols method of tuning a PID loop, but Dr Google has nothing. Do you have any references?

@kenstan - each have their place in the world.  More and more applications are being taken over by electronics systems however.

Iron

Excellent overview Max. Enjoyed it very much. You have set me up to make sure I come back the rest of the week.

Iron

great presentation and I like to hear your accent.

Iron

Thank you for the great info!

Iron

The presentation today was a really good one for me.  Thanks a lot.

Iron

Nice introduction. I have to run. See you tomorrow. Thank you.

Bye.

Iron

Please would you comment on the use of GPU's in industrial control.  Thank you very much for the excellent overview.

Iron

Very nice presentation today, Max -- thanks!

 

Iron

Thanks Clive, that presentation was smashing! Cheers.

Iron

Very enjoyable and informative introduction.  Thanks!

Clive I already enjoyed your articles because of the content presented and good sense of humor. Now I learned to like your lecture tone.

Iron

it was a FUN lecture. Thank you!!!

Iron

@jrjohns, That's usually refered to Psoc, not simple uC

Iron

can you tell me what platform (development board) we  use MCU and FPGA?

 

Iron

Yes... this was an excellent talk.  Thank you much, Clive/Max. Very enjoyable overview, will be back tomorrow.

 

interesting lecture today. thanks alex and max!

Iron

That was a phenomenal, clear presentation. Thanks, Max!

Iron

Very down to earth - Thanks

Iron

Thank you Clive

Excellent presentation.

Iron

yep... good one @ slk

Iron

Do altera (Qaurts?) design FPGAs that are programable???

How do development costs compare between FPGAs and SoCs?

 

Gold

@Max - the British understated humor is great!!  But I wish someone could bring back Benny Hill !!

Iron

Some of the new Microchip uControllers now have programmable gate logic on-chip

Iron

@ greekeng - and before that HC05

Iron

We could go all day calling out different uC numbers

Iron

Not quite: The Advanced Bionics ASIC used in their Harmony and Neptune cochlear implant speech processors has a DSP included

and 68H11 from Motorola

Iron

ladder charts and flow charts seem to be the same basic item..???

8031

8051

8052

8751

8752

All microcontroller

Iron

@bsprouse, yes you're right 8051 uC, son of 8048.

Iron

You mean 8051 uC, it was not a microprocessor but a microcontroller

Iron

ASIC's sometimes have DSP capabilities, such as used by Advanced Bionics in their cochlear implant speech processors

Different levels of integration

Iron

max is referring to 8051 uP

Iron

Is the part Max is refering to an 1851 or 8051?  Ausio isn't too clear.

Iron

@Bruce McLaren: Oops! The 1802 was RCA. #FML

 

yes the famous cosmac 1802, radiation hardened ( and still in use?)

Iron

The History of microprocessors is interesting, I wish we  had these details in slide itself

Iron

Liek the 8088,,and the co 8087.. and the "V" chip

Iron

RCA is famous for the 1802 processor.

Iron

The 6502 was made by MOS, the same company that created the chips for the commodore 64.

 

Iron

6502 from MOS TEchnology

Iron

@Dan: ARe you sure? Originally, I mean?

"Jelly Bean" = common parts

Iron

The 6502 was from RCA!!


 

Industrial grade components for use in harsh environments

Iron

have not heard the term "jelly bean logic" before...

Iron

SBC = Single Board Computer

Iron

Safety, Product quality and Process Optimization

Iron

Kensan:

what kind of motor control? PWM or ohase control or other types?

Iron

Clive, are Digital Sequential Machines PLCs part of the PAC classificaation?

Iron

 

Human Safety is most important issue.

Iron

how can i control spike in motor control?

 

Iron

@densgt - Programmable Automation Controller

Iron

What is the meaning of the acronym PAC?

Iron

Safety PLCs, Embedded OS

Iron

Elevator control is focused on far more than just getting people to a floor - Energy use minimization through scheduling and positioning are an important part of the programming

 

Iron

Can you use C for programming the PLC?

Iron

What is the diff between PLC and PAC?

Iron

I too am interested in ladder logic.

 

Iron

You'll see more and more statement list, by the big PLC manufacturers

Iron

PLC is also "moth proof" for anyone remembering the original computer "bug".

Iron

I do hope that the ladder logic will be dealt much in detail later. I am keen to understand that

Iron

In old Elevator control systems used tons of relays., But nodays microcontrollers make the so easy.

Iron

"could a wholely mechanical system be said to be better than an electronics system"

Depends- In the middle of nowhere, that has only spotty or non-existent electricity....

Iron

@kenstan - each have their place in the world.  More and more applications are being taken over by electronics systems however.

Iron

problems with relays, niusance trips, fixed closed contacts

Iron

mechanical vs electronic depends on the needs and situation.

@kenstan, it would last longer at least ;)

 

Iron

steam engines and mechanical governors are cool - no electricity (think EMP) and they work...

Iron

could a wholely mechanical system be said to be better than an electronics system

Iron

I cannot imagine a system controlled with chains, gears and stops... good to have electronics today

Iron

Yes Frank, but way cooler now

Iron

Q: Why does Linda Ronstadt sing so slowly?

A: Because she has a Governor on her! 

My first computer training was in mechanical computers

Think Babages differance engine

everything moved

now with robots the machines are moving again

whats old is new again

I think sensors and actuators deserve a place in the middle of this evolution list.

Iron

Thank you for numbering the slides!

Iron

rube goldberg machines!

Iron

my slides are numbered too...

Iron

I agree with you Max!

Iron

I also see slide numbers bottom center

Kenstan - Sensors used for Inputs, Actuators used as outputs.

Iron

My slides are numbered.

Iron

@kenstan - the first one senses, the second one performs an action..

 

Iron

the slides have a number in the bottom center.

Blogger

Safety instrumented system vs basic Process control in relation to Real time?

Iron

Appearently slides don't have numbers, except a steady 0.

Iron

what is the applicational diference between sensor and actuator

Iron

enterprise level also could be automatic just-in-time delivery for parts

Iron

Is there a comensurate hierarchy of control algorithms low level through to supervisory control ( diagram indicating different levels/facets of control) ?

Iron

Hi Clive! Nice to see you here also, besides the EE Times

Iron

,    ****** slid 9 *****

Iron

Lost the bookmark or the computer eate it. :o)

Iron

I'm a bit late today - still waiting for the audio to buffer...

Iron

isnt that what was said with the automobile

horse handlers, and shovellers all out of work

,    ****** slid 7 *****

Iron

Robots: Not much chance for helping the 10% unemployment!
Maybe a bunch of robot programmers and maintence personel?

Iron

,    ****** slid 6 *****

Iron

Plant Operation and Objectives -

Safety,

Environmental protection,

Equipment protection,

Smooth Plant Operation and Production rate,

Product Quality,

Profit Optimization

Monitoring and Diagnosis

 

Iron

missing finger parts... I remember getting lessons about taking off the wedding ring before working. A lot of guys missing the same ring finger at the time.

Iron

,    ****** slid 5 *****

Iron

Nice touches on the slides, Interesting images

and Slide numbers

Thanks Clive

 

the audio is working fine, refresh the page if it is not working

Iron

Audio load and clear.. slide two now

Iron

Hello from cold Montreal, Qc, Canada

 

Iron

Yes - Audio loud & clear

 

Iron

Hi everyone, expecting an interesting lecture

Iron

a quick review of the file tells me that will be an interesting lecture

Iron

Has the audio started?

Iron

happy lenten season and good day to you all

Iron

hello all, good to be back here.

 

Iron

first time the foils have the page number clearly showed :)

Iron

All ready to go.. even the retro encabulator is up and running...

Iron

no woof in the lab for now ... too much dangerous stuff in chewing range :-P :-P :-P

Iron

@s.schmiedl "Woof, woof" to the lab!

Iron

I can't believe that it's Monday already...

Blogger

Hi everyone, expecting an interesting lecture

Iron

This week:  moving into the "real world" of where all this stuff is used (and paid for)!

Iron

Hello all. Ready for another interesting week.

Iron

I'm very curious about my attendance this week as we have a new family member: a 10 week old Labrador Retriever :-)

Iron

I've "linked in".. cool, I'll start reading on whats up...thank you 

Iron

If you get a chance, please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger

Good day.. testing Link...

Iron


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