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Charles Murray
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Re: Engine off during coast
Charles Murray   3/23/2012 7:20:48 PM
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I don't know why, Stephen, but automakers seldom want to talk about 42V anymore. A decade ago, they couldn't stop talking about it.

Stephen
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Gold
Engine off during coast
Stephen   3/21/2012 9:45:06 AM
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The talk of shutting off the engine in coast phase in addition to while stationary brigs to mind a car built over forty years ago that I owned, a 1970 VW Squareback or 361, w/ Bosch electronic fuil injectin. When coasting w/ engine RPM over ~1500 the injection system stopped injecting fuel, though the breaker point and coil ignition system still sparked. One never felt or was in any way aware of this, but it did reduce HC (and CO?) emissions. I can't believe that modern injection systems aren't/can't go to zero fuel mode in coating conditions where the engine is being overdriven by by the drive train.

Re: A/C heatup, assuming a electricly driven compressor this would not be an issue, otherwise the ECM would have to modulate/cut the blower following shutdown and restart to avoid blowinghot air.

Lasy, this might be the final straw to push autos over to 42V vs 14V electrical systems.   

Charles Murray
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Re: Starting and stopping
Charles Murray   2/22/2012 7:23:26 PM
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I agree with you, Gorski. There are some wrinkles that need to be worked out, but this is a much simpler solution than doing advanced battery development.

Gorski
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Platinum
Re: Starting and stopping
Gorski   2/21/2012 9:22:08 PM
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This technol;ogy is a no-brainer. Just ask any golfer. Golf carts have been doing this for many years. I'm surprised the golf playing auto engieers haven't done this sooner.

Gorski

davidmac
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Iron
Re: Starting and stopping
davidmac   2/21/2012 8:04:36 PM
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Charles, thanks for the tip about Dean Kamen. I'll see if I can find more info about the car. BTW, my wife and I looked at a so-called hybrid in 2009. It was the Saturn Aura. The test drive proved to be a dud, as the battery that was supposed to keep the car going while it was stopped had to charge up, so it didn't actually work until we arrived back at the dealership. We went with a different Aura. The price difference was too great for us to justify such a small increase in gas efficiency.

Charles Murray
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Re: Mild hybrid evolution
Charles Murray   2/21/2012 11:34:29 AM
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I agree with you, mellowfellow. The use of the term "microhybrid" is a stretch at best. There is no hybrid powertrain propelling the wheels. And, yes, we will need more batteries with more oomph, as well as electric pumps and cooling storage evaporators, if we want the cabin to stay cool in summer and warm in winter.

Charles Murray
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Re: Starting and stopping
Charles Murray   2/21/2012 11:07:25 AM
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Davidmac, I'm not aware of any Stirling-hybrid projects at any of the big automakers right now. You're right that a hybrid would seem to be a good application for the Stirling, especially since its reputation as a "slow starter" wouldn't matter as much there. Ford recently installed Stirling engines at its Michigan Truck Plant, but only to generate electricity. Most of the major automakers looked seriously at Stirling engines in the '70s, but little came of it. AMC did put a Stirling engine in an experimental AMC Spirit and GM put the technology in a concept car in 1969. A couple of years ago, former Design News Engineer of the Year Dean Kamen created a Stirling hybrid using a Think City electric vehicle, but I haven't heard much about it since. Some of the automotive engineers I've spoken with over the years have alluded to packaging issues with the Stirling. But in these efficiency-obsessed times, when we seem to be considering every imaginable possibility, it seems like we should be hearing a little more about a Stirling hybrid.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Starting and stopping
Rob Spiegel   2/21/2012 10:55:05 AM
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Thought about this article as I drove around this weekend. I didn't realize how much time I spend idling. Not just traffic lights, but waiting in line at drive up ATMs and drive through food for the kids. I agree this technology would save a lot of energy.

davidmac
User Rank
Iron
Re: Starting and stopping
davidmac   2/20/2012 8:30:31 AM
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Charles, in this and another post about the Chevy Volt, the main issue seems to be cost versus fuel savings. In your many dealings with the car companies, did you ever hear about any of them using a Stirling engine instead of a standard ICE to do the same job as the ICE in the Volt? I know Ford looked into a Stirling engine at one point, but not in the hybrid mode. The Stirling is much more efficient, and if you could run it at its most efficient speed then you could simply use electric for the motility. You would only need a 5-10 kw battery, or even just a bank of supercapacitors (although the cost is still high on these). The Stirling's only drawback is that it takes time to warm up to produce power. The battery/capacitor removes that drawback, but does add cost. Overall though, the total package should be very simple. Any thoughts?

melllowfelllow
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Gold
Re: Mild hybrid evolution
melllowfelllow   2/17/2012 9:59:47 PM
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I am amused by the way that today's marketeers try to force an 'in word' [hybrid] onto any idea that they can. IMO, stopping the motor is just that - stopping the motor. Oh well...

Continuous incremental improvement is proven to be a successful avenue in many cases. An interesting thought that I had while reading the article - we all know that modern cars have been [and continue to be] invaded by microcomputers, but I haven't given thought to the large number of motors and solenoids that keep appearing each year. Start/stop will probably add an additional motor to spin the AC compressor and who knows what else.

I think the next thing to go will be engine speed/road speed corelation. The throttle will control torque/power to the rear wheels via an improved transmission and the engine will operate within a few preset speeds/conditions that will be optimized for efficiency. The base engine will only operate within 80% [??] of the expected conditions - possibly calling on the electric supercharger for that occaisional burst of power. Solenoid control valves will allow for almost infinite 'camshaft timing' without the mechanical heartaches. When vehicles are smart enough to kill the engines when we hit the brakes and transparently restart the engine if we didn't stop, we will have electric assisted brakes.  It is all basically here now.  Wow!! That is a lot of electricity for an ICE vehicle - we will definitely need batteries with more uummp!

The automobile will continue to evolve...

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