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Thanks Randy! Great presentation.

Iron

thanks to all colleagues in attending this class, once again see you all in the next live class by june 10...bye all...

once again, thanks sir randy for a great and excellent presentation...much appreciated! another lesson to be learned and familiar with the new technology...although that was 2012 class, the devices are absolutely amazing!

thanks again to digikey and design news for bringing this continuing education for us PDH Certificate gainer...

i am now on slide 18...almost finishing again for the sir randy lesson of day 2...great...

just starting now with slide 2...

i am just downloading now the presentation slides for reference...

good evening sir randy! here i am again for day 2 class lesson...

Thank you randy and Alex.

Iron

Thank you Randy & Alex for informative seminar.

Iron

Thank you for informative seminar.

Thank you Randy and Alex for another great presentation.

Iron

The variety of uses for products like Keyence VW-9000 is pretty far reaching.  

Iron

I never thought about the difficulty of detecting clear, empty glass bottles visually before.  I could see how that would be a problem.  

Iron

CMOS imagers look fairly impressive, depending on your needs.  

Iron

Good lecture,  got very excited about vison technology back in the 80's for inpection systems tried to get management interested enough to fund a project to explore this technology, but they could not see any use for this technology..... their loss.

Iron

This fires the imagination. I did not know these devices existed. I would think the manufacturers offer development kits with some screening process for eligibility.  These must be expensive in some cases.

Gold

Good overview and pointers to parameters, products and applications. 

* "ID" sensing in this context seems to imply capability to discern a particular shape/part/package perhaps label or barcode versus say face recognition.  

* You mentioned software, and perhaps it will be touched on in terms of integrating sensors to industrial control such as PLC or LabView or embedded applications in future classes in this session or the Industrial Control Classes coming up ...

Great Presentation....novel information for machine learning. Thanks

Iron

Another great session, Randy.  Thanks.

Iron

Good session with useful comparisons of technologies; well done!

Gold

Good lecture.  Real world examples.

Thanks for the lecture
Iron

Thank you Mr. Frank for an informative lecture.  Very interesting.

Iron

@Kentj you could potentially use opencv for that.

Iron

does anybody know a vision sensor that can distinguish between a glass tube being filled by, say, sand and a glass tube that is full of sand?

There is (or was) a company in Everett, Washington that made a "Curtain of Light" that would tell you exactly how full the jar was.  I worked there briefly but can't remember the name.  It's similar to Mannesman (Tally) but that was a printer company.

Iron

Thanks for valuable information.

Iron

Just need to add, that those sensors will be DC so you will need a 10-30vdc power supply to change 120vac to 24vdc to power the sensor. A "switcher" power supply will suffice. Low cost, hight quality.

Silver

I guess the sensor method has a lot to do with "parts on hand" and just good enough. I think vision is a great non-contact method, but sometimes things like guided wave or free space radar may be OK in larger applications.

Iron

We'll that's going to do it for me today. Talk to you tomorrow.

Blogger

This one was asked again by KevinJam.

Q. What General functional-Architecture is associated with Smart sensor design?

Strictly speaking, smart sensor has definitions associated with it that IEEE experts developed (IEEE 1451). There are a lot of specific definitions. However, the term smart sensor is used by many companies and has many meaning associated with it. You really have to look at the data sheets. In more and more of the semiconductor sup[pliers sensors, such as accelerometers, gyroscopes and pressure sensor,  the supplier uses the company's MCU to provide the smart capability. As these sensors are designed into more complete sensor modules, the architecture can vary significantly.

Blogger

ooohhh... or maybe _not_ use a continuous stream... then I'll have "clear" images until the tube is full. Nice.

Iron

rcwithlime: thanks. Obviously it was a case of "not enough stuff in the spare part bin" back then. I need to check how sugar pellets behave near capacitive sensors :-)

Iron

it's being a great day till tomorrow and happy val.

Iron

Thanks. Very good material.

Iron

If the fill stream completely blocks the tube, so light cannot penetrate thorugh, than cannot use a through beam. Diffuse reflective with background supression will have similar issue, if stream is able to block beam before it fills up. You are better off using a capacitive sensor mounted to the tube. Omron has them. Easy enough application for those sensors

Silver

enough opaque objects falling through the range of vision produce the same kind of signal as enough opaque objects sitting there quietly.

Iron

The tough part is sensing the presence of the clear object. A sensor designed to do that should be able to easily have the cability for secondary detection of a transparent or even opaque target.

I actually don't care about the presence of the clear object, it will be there. What I had trouble doing was to distinguish between the tube _being filled_ and the tube _being full_.

Iron

KevinJam: Silicon sensors go from UV into micrometer IR range (near IR). Chips based on indium Telluride or micro bolometers extend to the far infrared - 10 - 50 micrometers. The optics cannot be glass. Check out Flir or Wahl.

does anybody know a vision sensor that can distinguish between a glass tube being filled by, say, sand and a glass tube that is full of sand?

The tough part is sensing the presence of the clear object. A sensor designed to do that should be able to easily have the cability for secondary detection of a transparent or even opaque target.

Blogger

I'll e-see you all tomorrow.

Iron

Thanks Randy and Alex.

Iron

[Q] If a photoelectri sensor shows a poor precision and accrurate output, what do I check or make a fix the part of the system that the sensor attached. According to yesterday your slide #3 and the followed web site, the better accuracy would increase the cost, but I can't this, I'd like to change some circuitry part or system architecture, if it is possible. So I'd like to obtain the better precision output even though the accuracy will not improve. What about your recommandations?

Iron

In case of high-volume image processing, I'd expect to find a GPU inside of the box ...

Iron

What kind of processor are you typically using with the vision systems you have developed? What is the least amount of processing you have used?

I have not personally developed a vision system but I know that several of the well-known and leading semiconductor suppliers have a vision sensing MCU in their portfolio, expecially if they addrress automtive applications. If I remember right, they frequently are based on the ARM processor.

Blogger

syakovac: I learned today that it would pay off to get a _module_ reducing the vision problem as far as possible for your "backend" processing. you'd trigger the sensor, it would "do its thing" and report back "match" or "no match"

Iron
Hi Alexander,
I'm sorry for : slk, I'm going to have to block you if you don't stop posting ads.
The only thing I wanted is to give people some other additional info regarding each topic.
I saw a lot of comments what I considered that need more resources, or at least for the people who heard for the first time of what was presented.
I didn't want to look like this, but anyway, I will not add anything more from now one.
Sorry again,
Iron

Snandu, re illomination LEDs... These are usually IR at about 900nm. The human eye cut off is about 850 nm, so the output is invisible; however typical camera chips made using silicon are responsive to over 1 micro-meter. Your TV remote uses the same illumination diode, and consumer video cameras can see the digital signal from these LEDs, usually even with an IR cut filter in place.

Thanks Randy for your presentation

Iron

Q. What of the effect of the medium on the light path.....refraction, dispersion attenuation?...... on effectiveness of the sensor.

With vision sensing a great question. In non industrial applications such as automotive these all can play a limiting role of the effectiveness of the sensor. In fact, to overcome the limitations two different sensing techniques are often used for vehicles that need to sense traffic for warning systems. vision and radar or lidar are the choices fro these applications. In industrial, I would expect that the variations in the operating enviroment would ahve to be considered under extrme cicumstnaces. I have seen little about them causing a non functioning system.

Blogger

Once again, good one.  Thanks!

Iron

Randy:  

What kind of processor are you typically using with the vision systems you have developed?  What is the least amount of processing you have used?

Iron

Frequency/wavelength selection that can be sensed?

Iron

Thanks Alex and Randy.

 

Iron

KevinJam: whatever you allow to disturb the light will reduce the effectiveness. You'd have to be much more specific for a more precise answer.

Iron

Regarding frame grabber:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_grabber  has a pretty good explanation. I'm not sure aof any specifc produs off hand

Blogger

What of the effect of the medium on the light path.....refraction, dispersion attenuation?...... on effectiveness of the sensor

Iron

Randy, using the time-of-flight strategy in image sensing, would it be possible to say, detect a varying level of liquid inside a tank? Thanks.

Iron

does anybody know a vision sensor that can distinguish between a glass tube being filled by, say, sand and a glass tube that is full of sand?

Iron

Rnady, in slide 20.  230,000/sec implies 4.35us to process all those pixels? What kind of MCU is capable of doing that work?

Iron

Does a user need to control the ambient lighting environment to get assured performance from a vision system?

Thanks much very informative

Iron

Thanks a lot, very informative!

Reyaz - Yep, I thought so too.

Iron

Thanks for the presentation.  It was very useful.

thank you randy and alex. good presentation

Iron

Thanks Randy, Alex and all. See you tomorrow.

I'll stay online for a while to see if Randy can address my question about hobby level models.

Iron

Gud question, Ran!!!

Iron

thank you Randy, It's an impressive lecture, today.

Iron

This was a great presentation, Randy.

Iron

Alexander Wolfe - During each presentation we are fortunate to get the bio and photo of the lecturer.  When when will we get to see a photo of you?

Iron

check my rough calculation, it's late enough to drop a zero .-)

Iron

Thanks Randy, very informative presentation

Iron

Randy, could you please point to frame grabbers?

Iron

Excellent presentation. Thanks Randy.........

Iron

9 TB is a lot of information by today's standard, but, tomorrow it will be small...

Iron

Randy, a lot of hobby level vision systems like Arduino and Propeller are frame grabbers with the image processing on a larger system such as PC. Does this model the commercial/industrial world?

Iron

THX, Frank! Good presentation

 

Iron

Randy please advice on further reference reading materials

Iron

High end cameras are using Gig-e outpits. Is old fashioned analog video still used?

Dont go away . Randy will be on the live chat box soon.

Blogger

I have lost audio between 24 and 30 min of the presentation.  How to get it from recorded session later?

I didn't see much for examples of low-cost machine vision.  What do you like for low-cost complete solutions for robotic vision for navigation in full light without relying on high speed computation to "fix" the image?  If you don't have good examples, how would you go about shopping for such a device?  What do you look for specifically in terms of specifications and features?

Iron

Thanj you Randy, excellent presentation.

Iron

cmeadows6959 -  There are also the usual home scanners and OCR software for converting scanned/graphic text to ascii.

Iron

Thank you for the presentation.

Iron

Great Information! Thanks Randy and Alex.

Iron

Thank you and see you tomorrow.

Iron

thank you for the info,

Iron

Randy, thank you for one more informative lecture.

Iron

thanks for the good job

Iron

Thank you for good info

Iron

What is the reliability of vision-based systems when the area you want to install is a dusty environment?

Iron

In slide 20. 230,000/sec implies 4.35us to process all those pixels? What kind of MCU is capable of doing tht work?

Iron

Excellent presentation again, Randy.  Thank you.  Looking forward to tomorrow.

cmeadows6959 - Don't forget those pads at stores where you sign for your credit card purchases.  That is considered a sensor.

Iron

informative presentation. thanks, randy and alex

Iron

good presentation, thanks

Iron

230 kframes/s -> 70 Mframes/h -> 700 GB/h at 1MPixel -> 9 TB per 13 h

Iron

Thank you for the Presentation.

 

Iron

Q: Randy, what about software for image analysis: National Instruments, OpenCV, etc

Iron

13 hours at 230K fps?

Iron

What of the effect of the medium on the light path.....refraction, dispersion attenuation?...... on effectiveness of the sensor

Iron

I wonder how fast the circuits are clocked inside vw-9000...

Iron

Speed of light: one foot per nanosecond

are there sensors that scan areas, eg. writing,

slk, I'm going to have to block you if you don't stop posting ads.

Blogger

I've programmed sensors to see glass to see through two other layers of glasss, fun fun fun

Iron

Randy/Alex, the photoelectric sensors are on-off types, right? They wouldn't do the "proximity sensing" job, would thay?

Iron

How distnace can  Balluff Sharpshooter ID vision sensor sense?

 

Iron

krhohio: they usually do. make sure that your barcodes are supported by the device

Iron

the sensor does not but the software on the computer the sensor is connected to could convert that.

Iron

may have to use dedicated communication network based on bandwidth requirements?

Iron

Do the vision sensors read and convert the bar code to ASCII?

Iron

to have an idea for some apps of the image sensors in the real life check this : http://www.lmi3d.com/

Iron

i imagine they can be color or bw.

 

Iron

They are typically monochrome, although color is available (at higher cost).

Iron

Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger

If you get a chance, please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

@snandu13, in this context, frames per second...

Iron

fps is frames per second

Iron

fps == frames per second

Iron

FPS = frames per second.

Iron

Are these inspection type sensors typically monochrome or color?

Iron

Cannot get any sound!

 

Silver

Are those sensors programmable for IP Address regarding the ethernet access?

Iron

Quite a bit of bandwidth per communication bus if a shared network

Iron

Are the LEDS around the sensor provide lighting for the sensor ? are they infrared in nature?

Iron

Randy, when we go to greater fps rates combined with higer resolution, memory and cpu power thends to increase perhaps quadratically. Can you summarize some typical examples of industrial application requirements as a funciton of static and dynamic resolutions?

Iron

Slide 10 notes show a double listing of :

 

http://www.datasensor.co.uk/item-194.html

 

Is this an error, and is there another URL intended?

Iron

@snandu13, in general, it does...

Iron

What's pricing on that large CCD?

 

Iron

Randy/Alex, Any record of problem with CMOS due to sensitivity to static interference and damage?

Iron

That's one BIG CCD on slide 9... I'd guess, 50K$+...

Iron

Does anyone know what one of our customers means by "DV 512x512"?

Iron

A better than serial, can one do a partial scan to just get a small portion of the video at higher speed?

 

Gold

Q: I have experience using block cameras from SONY such as the FCBIX11AP http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-industrialcameras/cat-block/product-FCBIX11AP/, can you recommend any alternative like this one, with similar features?

Iron

Does the higher pixel count indicate higher resolution?

Iron
Another good source of info is : http://www.icmaster.com/ , where you will need to REGISTER too, but is really worth it.
Iron

For today's presentation there is the section "Sensors and Transducers" http://www.globalspec.com/electronics/251105588/sensors-and-transducers , where also you can find the "Image Sensors" section.

Iron

Are both output serial?

Gold

CMOS is your VHS to the CDD (Beta)

Iron
If you want more info and to be up-dated all the time with everything what is new on the market you may want to SUBSCRIBE and REGISTER with this : http://www.globalspec.com/electronics/ , then select what you are interested in and you will receive all that in your email.
I found this to be a good source of "zero effort" source of info.
Iron

I'd go with the "pretty lady and a button"! ;-)

Iron

I wonder if CMOS windowing ability is why R&D costs are so much higher.

Iron

I am looking into CCD vs CMOS in a high vibration, temperature variant environment. Suggestions?

 

Iron

Hi, Alex, I made it!

I don't know what happened to the website today. Just because I restarted the browser today, after installing some updates, I went to the usual page and took 20 minutes to get in. Initially it went to an applet with a pretty lady and a button, which didn't take me into the CEC calendar. Very difficult.

Iron

Reliability / robustness of CCD vs CMOS?

Iron

Cell phones and webcams are frequently CMOS

Iron

Most of the cheaper web cams use which type of technology 

in other words whats the most common technolgy used?

use the link from the "notes" section of slide 3:

http://www.teledynedalsa.com/corp/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.aspx

Iron

laxman99

check out http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/supcapvoltlim.htm

Iron

slide 3 link has overwriting on it

Gold

What is datamatrix reading and OCV character check?

what is the cost of vision sensing versus some of the more simple infared sensing for positioning, counting and the more simple sensing functions?

Iron

@laxman99, try charge in parallel, discharge in series

Iron

anyone know of a way to charge a series-connected stack of nine supercaps?? I've looked at some supercap chargers but they only handle two cells.  Shoulld i look for a Lion chip that does nine?  Any comments would be appreciated.

marc

Iron

Ready for another great ppt...

Iron

Randy, hoping you can talk about color sensors and options from TAOS and AVAGO

Iron

No one is talking yet

 

Iron

With no audio, log out and log back in.  It has worked for me before.

Iron

audio player was about one minute late... now it's loud and clear...

Iron

@kenstan, refresh your browser

Iron

good afternoon - looking forward to an interesting session

Iron

no audio, try browser page refresh/reload

Iron

no audio player yet...

Iron

@danlafleur, yes I agree, good ones

Iron

@Geekeng, I really liked popular electronics and radio electronics way back when.

Iron

hello everybody...

 

Iron

Thanks, danlafleur. I;ll check that out.

I reallly enjoyed an older magazine "Radio electronics"

Iron

Object recognition.....what is the current state of Technology - What level of detail is currently "Recognizable?

Iron

@Alaskaman66, i've heard of OpenCV for the microcontroller world, image processing that looks really interesting for small machines.

Iron

Anyone ever sibscribe to "Photonics" ? It's a great trade publication.

Hi

Do you plan to publish your entire Course? Maybe in e-book form?

Joe

Hello everybody that says "Hello everybody".

Iron

Are the sofware algorithms for object recognition in machine vision systems available from third parties as stand alone, or are they provided by the camera/sensor manufacturers?

What is a good thermal sensor for a cryogenic chamber that will not heat up the chamber or bring in noise (like from communications)?

Iron

Hi, Kevin-

We'll try to address some of these when Randy and I chat after his presentation.

Blogger

Questions below sorry.....

Iron

hi Randy hope you can address the above?

 

Iron

Hi Alex,

I had some questions yesterday that i don't think Frank got around to answering, hopefully I can ask today;

Q. is there a limitation on bus-communication capacity vs the number of sensors and particulars of sensor response times in relation to bandwidth?

Q. does the bus -communication technology contribute to the response time expected - (consideration given to real-time monitoring and safety systems backup)?

Q. You mentioned accuracy and precision, but what also of reliability and necesity for use of redundancy in sensing architecture?

Q. What General functional-Architecture is associated with Smart sensor design?

Iron

Good morning all, ready for day 2.

Iron

OK thanks for the explanation on how to join/what to expect to see when the lecture starts!  I'm here, and looking forward to it..

If you get a chance, please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger

Pre-2007 version (.ppt instead of .pptx) of slides:

http://www.filesavr.com/EPYBAUPVA1HYHGH



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