HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  RESOURCE CENTER  |  INDUSTRIES
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
zeeglen
User Rank
Iron
Re: Can you here the ATC hum now?
zeeglen   2/21/2012 3:37:36 PM
NO RATINGS
Good catch, but I'd be very concerned about why a cable shield that is supposedly grounded at one end has enough AC on it to give a nasty shock.  You have to wonder about the technical prowess of those who initially designed/installed/tested the system.

Years back I was fighting a problem with the waveshape from a T1 interface.  It turned out the whover wired that telephone central office used 72 ohm twisted pair instead of the proper 100 ohm cable.

LisaAiran
User Rank
Iron
Re: A new approach
LisaAiran   2/10/2012 11:08:44 PM
NO RATINGS
OMG how could it possible in such ammount, I mean as per Government the labour cost may exceede $10. Looking forward for this desiogn, hope governement should approve this and apply everywhere.

 

skin care and aging

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Can you here the ATC hum now?
William K.   2/9/2012 7:09:30 PM
NO RATINGS
I am amazed that anybody would use BNC connectors for an audio input on a remoted transmitter. My guess is that the transmitters were not designed to be remoted like that. Transformer coupling, balanced or not, with an electrostatic shield between primary and secondary, was definitely the correct fix.

OF course, it would have been valuable to figure out why there was 90 volts AC between the two grounds.  I can immagine several explanations, though.

And of course there is always the burden of believing that the system functioned correctly at some time. Unfortunately, not everything that is built is designed, and not everything that is designed is designed correctly. So sometimes there are problems like this.

Fix-it-or-not
User Rank
Iron
Re: Can you hear air traffic control now?
Fix-it-or-not   2/9/2012 1:07:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Yes, it was definately a band-aid moment.  The solution would have been to redesign the audio output and input stages of the communications gear to use isolated and balanced audio at both ends.  The equipment rack and consoles were separated by 6 floors.  I admit that the AC Safety ground for the building wasn't up to the challenge, or that there was some other piece of equipment that at causing the problem of a high difference in the ground potential.

But all of that aside, the real problem was a crap design using unbalanced audio extended over several floors which would have caused problems no matter what.  The equipment manufacturer, C----ns, should have known much better.

The isolation transformers where mounted on a piece of plexiglas and had a cover and warnings on it identifying the problem.  This didn't exist prior to the band-aid moment.

I would have thought that over the 15 year period that this problem existed that someone would have corrected the problem on such a critical service much earlier.

S.Wimmer
User Rank
Iron
Can you hear air traffic control now?
S.Wimmer   2/9/2012 10:44:09 AM
NO RATINGS
Yes jljarvis,

The transformer is a bandaid.  However I have been in several situations where it was impractical or not cost effective (or permitted) to fix the 'real' problem.

Stephen

 

 

jljarvis
User Rank
Gold
Can you hear ATC now?
jljarvis   2/9/2012 9:16:39 AM
NO RATINGS
Good job, catching the AC differential between the audio gear and the transmitter ground.   But those isolation transformers were bandaids.  

 

One should hope that no future tech has his hands on the TX chassis whilst disconnecting a BNC!   90VAC can kill ya.  

 

One wonders if there might be a common + gnd to chassis connection at one end or another of that audio run.

Fix-it-or-not
User Rank
Iron
Re: A new approach
Fix-it-or-not   2/8/2012 8:42:49 PM
NO RATINGS
I have often thought about how much the government would have spent over the 15 years that they tried to resolve this problem.  Of course, I was never told, but I did catch heck for being $5.00 over what I had estimated the repair cost would be!  It's been 35 years since I have worked there.  I wished I did know...

I'd been playing with electronics since I was a child, and at this point, troubleshooting had become almost instinctive.  What had amased me at the time was that no one realised where the problem lay!  It was pretty obvious where the problem was coming from.

One thing that I have noticed is that when trouble shooting equipment, people tend to think that the installation was working at some point.  If everything that was checked is as it should be, it's usually the thing that no one has checked that's causing the problem!

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Good engineering is priceless
Charles Murray   2/8/2012 7:54:03 PM
NO RATINGS
Whatever earlier solutions were tried, they had to cost more than $105 in labor alone. What it comes down to is that it's really hard to replace a smart enginer.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: A new approach
Rob Spiegel   2/8/2012 2:41:12 PM
NO RATINGS
Yes, Naperlou, the trick for Clint's success may have been that he didn't know what was attempted earlier. Like you, I'd like to know what that was. Clint will be checking in on these comments, so we may get the rest of the story.

naperlou
User Rank
Blogger
A new approach
naperlou   2/8/2012 10:00:19 AM
NO RATINGS
Clint, what a great story.  You took a disciplined approach without preconceptions.  You questioned the selection of the cable and tracked down the issue.  I just wonder what was done before to address the issue.  Sometimes it pays to take a new approach without knowing what was done before.



Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
When an artificial product is manufactured to match its real-world version, some qualities should be reviewed and discarded.
Joining porous metal to mating components for medical and life sciences applications can be accomplished in a variety of ways.
New versions of BASF's Ecovio line are both compostable and designed for either injection molding or thermoforming. These combinations are becoming more common for the single-use bioplastics used in food service and food packaging applications, but are still not widely available.
Andrew Morris designed a circuit that could detect a stroke victim's groan and convert the sound into a signal so caregivers would know when help was needed.
New disc magnet motors fit into the design trend of stepping up to closed loop performance while maintaining the cost advantage of stepper motor technology.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
5/30/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/29/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
6/25/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
6/27/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Blogs from Our Sponsors
From Dell / Intel®
New Paradigms in Design Work
Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013    5
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
From Dell / Intel®
Increased Workstation Performance Is as Easy as 'DPPO'
Trey Morton, Dell, 4/25/2013    2
I've been using workstations for more than 10 years and love finding ways to get more performance from my system. With demanding professional applications that require more power each ...
From Dell / Intel®
Taking Some of the Grit out of Manufacturing
Kirsten Billhardt, Manufacturing Industry Marketing Strategist, Dell, 3/26/2013    5
A lasting memory from my first job as an engineer in an auto assembly plant is standing on hard concrete at six in the morning, vending-machine coffee clutched in hand, listening to ...
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Jun 24 - 28, Design Your Own Android App
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3


DN Radio
Sponsored by
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
For industrial control applications, or even a simple assembly line, that machine can go almost 24/7 without a break. But what happens when the task is a little more complex? That’s where the “smart” machine would come in. The smart machine is one that has some simple (or complex in some cases) processing capability to be able to adapt to changing conditions. Such machines are suited for a host of applications, including automotive, aerospace, defense, medical, computers and electronics, telecommunications, consumer goods, and so on. This radio show will show what’s possible with smart machines, and what tradeoffs need to be made to implement such a solution.
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2013 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service