HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  RESOURCE CENTER  |  INDUSTRIES
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
<<  <  Page 2/3  >  >>
naperlou
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Rethinking R&D tax credits
naperlou   2/6/2012 2:52:23 PM
NO RATINGS
Alex, there are certianly reasons to want to do something at the governmental level to counter the Chinese government's intervention in their economy.  On the other hand, this is just like what the Japanese did over two decades ago.  At least now, the US is still very much in the running.  If the government has a role I would vote for R&D support in the form of educational support and research labs. 

naperlou
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Why R&D Tax Credit does not work for small business
naperlou   2/6/2012 2:44:34 PM
NO RATINGS
RadioGuy, this tax credit is not aimed at you.  It is really aimed at large companies that spend billions on R&D.  Your argument about the broader reform is more on target.  For one thing, it would help everyone, not just the large player.  On the other hand, it make this whole debate about the R&D tax credit moot.  The fact is, we have become too tied to manipulation of our economy through taxes.  As the issues with the current R&D tax credit mentioned in this article show, we cannot respond quickly through tax policy.  We are always behind the curve when it comes to that.

RadioGuy
User Rank
Gold
Why R&D Tax Credit does not work for small business
RadioGuy   2/6/2012 2:07:12 PM
NO RATINGS
As the finance guy for a small company (of the "5 guys in a garage" variety) my partners asked me to look into the R&D tax credit. I quickly found that it is completely unworkable for a small business like ours, which mostly operates on a cash accounting basis.

In order to make use of incentives like this, we have to use a much larger accounting system, where we maintain separate financials for

- day to day operations

- federal tax accounting

- state tax accounting

Instead of expensing our lab costs and the labor costs of the engineers doing the development work, we have to capitalize them and manage different depreciation schedules for the federal and state acoounting systems.

In short, to benefit from such incentives, we have to create a high-overhead accountant infrastructure, and structure our business around it. This may well work for a larger company with venture finance backing, but it is completely counterproductive for a truly small business.

As far as I am concerned, we would be much better off broadening the tax base by eliminating many of these "special incentives" a.k.a. loopholes. If desired, we could make the reform revenue neutral by lowering the corporate income tax rate or (even better) expand the 15% bracket up to $500K.

Of course, such a simplification is not likely to happen any time soon, since it is the larger companies with the tax lawyers on staff that have the money to spend on lobbyists.

Alexander Wolfe
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Rethinking R&D tax credits
Alexander Wolfe   2/6/2012 1:57:29 PM
NO RATINGS
The argument for leaving the market unregulated is good until one comes up against what China does to support its industries and technology vis a via the U.S. If China is unbalancing the playing field, as it were, then doesn't the U.S. have a right (and even a responsibility) to rebalance it by offering some levels of support, whether it's tax credits or R&D support, or whatever?

Dave Palmer
User Rank
Platinum
Process improvement
Dave Palmer   2/6/2012 1:35:07 PM
NO RATINGS
I'm not a tax expert, but my understanding based on what I've read elsewhere is that companies can't claim the R&D tax credit for any research conducted after the start of commercial production.

If the goal is simply to promote development of new technologies, then this makes sense.  But, as George points out, there is no guarantee that companies won't use this credit to develop products in the U.S., write off the development costs, and then manufacture the products overseas.  Then the U.S. gets both less tax revenue and fewer jobs.  It's win-win for companies who do this, and lose-lose for the U.S.

But if the goal is to promote manufacturing, it might be a good idea to allow companies to claim the credit for research directed towards improving existing manufacturing processes -- provided, of course, that these manufacturing processes are located in the U.S.

Michael Rashkin's article in EETimes makes a number of other interesting points, such as how the credit disproportionately benefits large companies, who don't need it in the first place.  On the other hand, small start-up companies can't benefit from tax credits if they haven't made any profits, because they don't have any tax liability to begin with.

It seems to me like it might make sense to put a cap on the size of company which is eligible for the credit, like some income-based education credits.  Maybe, for very small companies, the credit could even be made refundable, like the Earned Income Tax Credit.

BrainiacV
User Rank
Gold
Re: Rethinking R&D tax credits
BrainiacV   2/6/2012 11:23:30 AM
NO RATINGS
My problem is with

making the credit applicable only to "innovative research and breakthrough products,"

Who determines if a product meets those conditions and then how soon before the companies start gaming the system so ALL products are innovative and breakthroughs.

 

The beancounters and lawyers will not rest, not with the money involved and the desire to wring the highest profits possible, irregardless of the societal and technological aspirations of the R&D credit.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Rethinking R&D tax credits
Rob Spiegel   2/6/2012 11:02:03 AM
NO RATINGS
Good points, TJ. Yet at some point the differential between China labor costs will even out somewhat. China is already seeing increased labor costs, particularly in plants that make goods aimed for the U.S. and Europe. That trend is sending a lot of manufacturing to Viet Nam.

Here in this country, manufacturers have negotiated labor costs down. Add shipping to the cost of China manufacturing and the gap begins to close somewhat. Add a few tax incentives and the U.S. may become an attractive place for manufacturing again.

apresher
User Rank
Blogger
Tax Credit
apresher   2/6/2012 10:16:50 AM
NO RATINGS
Thanks for posting the link.  After reading it, I think we should let the tax credit die.  In practice, while the idea of the R&D tax credit is definitely appealing, the RESULTS over 30 years have been less than impressive.  It's just another example of government spending going to companies that don't need it, and spending not producing specific results.

George Leopold
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Rebuilding Manufacturing
George Leopold   2/6/2012 10:07:46 AM
NO RATINGS
Michael Rashkin has much more to say about the shortcomings of the R&D tax credit here:

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4235663/The-R-D-credit-doesn-t-work#76147

 

TJ McDermott
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Rethinking R&D tax credits
TJ McDermott   2/6/2012 10:01:26 AM
NO RATINGS
I like the idea proposed in this article, but I doubt it would reverse the overseas manufacturing drain.

The cost to manufacture in the US is high because of labor costs.  US workers expect (RIGHTLY!) a safe work environment (and it is mandated by law).  China does not offer the same safety to its workers.  US workers are paid more than Chinese workers, have better benefits.  Until the disparity is truly acknowledged, there will be no change in manufacturing location.  The "global" market is a fallacy until such differences are leveled.

I am not taking a false moral stand; I'm no different than anyone else.  I know that my desire to purchase things at the lowest cost to me means I will be purchasing Chinese-manufactured items.

Set aside safety (let's assume for sake of argument all factories have the same level of worker safety).  If a factory here were to try to get away with paying its workers what Chinese factory workers earn, the newspapers here would have banner headlines with phrases like "sweat shop" and "slave labor".  If that is what it is here, then why is it not there?

<<  <  Page 2/3  >  >>


Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
With LEDs dropping in price virtually every year, automakers have begun employing them, not only on luxury vehicles, but on entry-level models, as well.
The 3D printing revolution seems to have a knack for quickly moving technology ahead by way of collaborative effort and even a little friendly competition -- all of course in the name of scientific advancement.
Littelfuse Inc. has created a NASA Exploration & Discovery Experience for the engineering community as part of its 2013 Speed2Design promotion.
Advantech has launched a new series of motion-control I/O modules to meet the increased demands that come with more distributed industrial systems that require control of a growing number of axes and devices.
Using almost 200 light-emitting diodes in the front and back of the new 2014 CTS, Cadillac designers are showing how LEDs can change the character of a vehicle.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
5/22/2013 9:00 a.m. California / 12:00 p.m. New York / 5:00 p.m. London
5/15/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/29/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/30/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Blogs from Our Sponsors
From Dell / Intel®
New Paradigms in Design Work
Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013    3
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
From Dell / Intel®
Increased Workstation Performance Is as Easy as 'DPPO'
Trey Morton, Dell, 4/25/2013    2
I've been using workstations for more than 10 years and love finding ways to get more performance from my system. With demanding professional applications that require more power each ...
From Dell / Intel®
Taking Some of the Grit out of Manufacturing
Kirsten Billhardt, Manufacturing Industry Marketing Strategist, Dell, 3/26/2013    5
A lasting memory from my first job as an engineer in an auto assembly plant is standing on hard concrete at six in the morning, vending-machine coffee clutched in hand, listening to ...
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
May 20 - 24, Automation Technologies & Trends for Smarter Homes & Buildings
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3


DN Radio
Sponsored by
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
A quick look into the merger of two powerhouse 3D printing OEMs and the new leader in rapid prototyping solutions, Stratasys. The industrial revolution is now led by 3D printing and engineers are given the opportunity to fully maximize their design capabilities, reduce their time-to-market and functionally test prototypes cheaper, faster and easier. Bruce Bradshaw, Director of Marketing in North America, will explore the large product offering and variety of materials that will help CAD designers articulate their product design with actual, physical prototypes. This broadcast will dive deep into technical information including application specific stories from real world customers and their experiences with 3D printing. 3D Printing is
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2013 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service