I appreciate very much your comments and find them both familiar and revealing.
"What were they wearing" is a glib non-issue. I state as VERIFIABLE FACT that those who live in northern climes will tell you one and all that they have personally experienced significant climate warming over their life times. I have.
I offer also as VERIFIABLE FACT that the greenhouse effect is real and that CO2 has the effect of raising temperature of an "atmosphere" subjected to sunlight radiation.
I offer also as VERIFIABLE FACT that humans burn about 40 million barrels of oil per day year round now and have done so for decades (40 million now, less earlier of course). As burning oil releases CO2, which has a demonstrated capability of increaing the temperature of an atmosphere subjected to sunlight radiation, I conclude that the action of man has the capability to contribute to warming.
I have no beliefs in this regard. I have the facts and have been trained to draw conclusions from observations and data. It is impossible not to conclude that human activity does contribute to the warming of the globe, the only issue how strong a factor.
But the MOST interesting part of your reply and the most familiar as well is;
"Just don't demand I pay for your beliefs."
Isn't that the crux of the matter. Those who fight the idea that human action may be contributing to the warming of the globe, a verifiable fact, are afraid that...it will cost them money to deal with it? All logic, all interest in scientific inquiry, all the education and training in logic is pushed aside because...it might cost you money if the wrong fact is uncovered.
We Americans are both the best educated and wealthiest people in the world. I guess we--with exceptions--value our money more than our education.
All I am saying is that it seems a simple arument to me, when looking at the fact that millions of gallons of fule is burned everyday all around the globe, maybe 15% of that is actually converted into mechanical energy, but the rest is heat injected into the atmosphere. You can not convince me that this amount of heat does not have a cumulative effect after 100 years.
Not to mention all the other issues and problems associated with what man has done.
Oh, and don't forget the amount of heat radiated from all the inefficentcys of all the elctrical devices that 100Giga watt nuclear plant makes and the cooling towers and, and ,and...............
"...what about all the man made posions that a being dumped into our world everyday?"
Like the mercury from millions of pigtail lightbulbs? They last only a small fraction of what was advertised, and only 4% are being disposed of properly. Virtually nobody is doing the HAZMAT cleanup from broken/blown bulbs in homes, etc.
We're still spending billions to take the lead out of bldgs and land while we're pouring the mercury in.
It's ok to make comments, but to make blanket statements with no supporting evidence (WhEEngineer) is irresponsible and one of the biggest reasons that people are so confused. Keep your unbased opinions to yourself, or find a non-professional avenue to spew your garbage. I happen to be one that actually looks at evidence, but it doesn't take a genius to see the real evidence, the oceans are rising "a satellite-measured average rate of about 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year from 1993 to 2009" ^Nicholls, Robert J.; Cazenave, Anny (18 June 2010). "Sea-Level Sea-Level Rise and Its Impact on Coastal Zones".Science Magazine328 (5985): 1517–1520.doi:10.1126/science.1185782. Also the world's glaciers are disappearing. We can't know for sure if man is causing it, but we do know that high CO2 levels were experienced in the earth's history during warmer times, and we know that man's influence creates large amounts of CO2 through our use of fossil fuels and the removal of foliage that absorbs CO2. We didn't need any real evidence to be convinced that OJ was a murderer, why is so hard to believe that global warming is caused by man? Is it really that much of a stretch of the imagination? Should we just turn a blind's eye to the mounting evidence, stick our heads in the the sand and hope that everything cools down? I really WANT TO BELIEVE that man is the cause, because if it is a normal global trend, than there is nothing we can do about it. To conclude, I would like to see the end to the use of fossil fuels regardless of their global ramifications. I would like to ride my Harley down the road without breathing nasty, gasonline burning cars. I would like to walk into a city and breathe fresh air, instead of the noxious fumes of a million cars, busses and trucks laying stagnant between the buildings. I want us to be a smarter society, ruled more by common sense, than lawmakers who cater to the rich regardless of the harm to the general public their policies impart.
Without a scientific time study transfered to an empirical matrix, considering all known variables, to predict what effects so-called global warming has on the everchanging atmosphere of earth, all the human opinion on earth are just cheap words. An old inuit, far north, stated the suns longivity in his location had grown from around 1 month to 2 months in his lifetime, giving rise to the probability of earths change in its position to earth. Without a scientific study, (none exists) my suggestion that the CO2 which has changed a few parts per million over the years our instrumentation is capable of identifying any change at all might be to suggest the curve may be related to or near a parallel with humanities rapidly increasing population on earth. As the sun orbits our galactic center every 230 million years or so, and near 200 million is spent in long periods of glaciation, we can surely continue to expect continual change in earths atmospheric ionization structure. The book sellers always discover from someone else they suddenly become an expert on, as there are no others with any valid study to disprove whatever they say in their little books to get attention.
Time changes all things
few people are capable of preparing a math platform to prove anything, these people are vastly over represented in this blog.
only truth, the same from all perspectives will stand the test of time---We have far more serious changes going on having negative affects on our society than the questionable CO2 change---Free Trade, or permitting free trade with a country sworn to destroy our way of life, enslave their people and use free trade as a weapon to steal our factories, and shutter our small family goods and services businesses, that once provided more jobs than people. Unless we return to the days of an independent country, making in america, what america consumes, with import taxation to discourage slavery and be proactive american science and technology. The accrued taxation used to support our infrastructure is lost to slave nations and american slavers, lime the walton family who take mor e money out of our economy than 30 % of our workforce---we have a lawyer, judge, politician, lobbie/client problem, city, county, state, and federally pseudo elected officials and administraitors are destroying our way of life---The young between 18 and 29 are 56 % unemployeed, off the chart, not n unemployment therefore they are not among the unemployed
affirmative action ACORN splnter groups granted census authority by executive order, also have responsibility for election protocol, armed with 3 billion in stimulus money we can expect another electionfraud, or term of obanomics, and the end of our nation, as we know it
As any person (born and) raised near the arctic circle and now in his fifties knows beyond a shadow of a doubt, the climate has warned radiclly in those areas. Big changes in flora and fauna from the days of my youth are obvious, when I visit my ancestral homes now. There have been dramatic changes in people's life styles and clothing. I wonder if sellers of recreational and sport clothing can corraborate this with their sales figures because gas grilles, chaise lounges, t-shirts and shorts are ubiquitous there now (in summer) but were unheard of then.
So, FACT is, significant parts of the globe have warmed up over the last few decades.
As a side fact, mines have gone into operation in Greenland in recent years that just a decade ago were inaccessible, buried underneath 60 feet of ice that now has melted.
But is it manmade or man contributed?
It matters not that the globe has gone through periods of cooling and warming before human habitation. It matters only if the habitation of humans is generating the effects that can cause warming, whether just like those that have occurrred naturally or new modes.
My understanding is that experiments have been conducted that prove that CO2 in an "atmosphere" receiving sun light radiation has a significant heating effect, i.e. the green house effect is, again, FACT. It therefore stands to reason that if human habitation releases large quantities of CO2 into the atmophere it can have a heating effect.
How big an effect? Well 40 million barrels of oil bunred 365 days a year for 5 decades or so might have an effect, I'd say. Does any minimally scientifically educated person think that 40 million barrels of oil per day for decades HAS NO (warming) EFFECT? Add to that deforestation/tree burning, coal burning, gas combustion, etc. Still conclude it has NO EFFECT?
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