Again,we are talking pollution, which is limited in scope. The anti-humans (name calling is fun!) are always scrounging to manipulate the poor data, using the natural climate changes that go on a 70 year cycle, and taking local events and manipulated models to cry wolf and blame civilization. God said the earth is full and ready for harvest. Yes, we need to take care of it (His words were to "dress and keep it"), and that is one of our failures, but we are to advance mankind and not say "I have mine and that is enough".
If that is good enough for the Master Engineer, then that is good enough for me. I will do my part to protect it, as we all should. We need to stop the large international Fascist-run corporations from running roughshod over the earth. I agree. But we, as humans, are NOT changing the climate.
First; If 97% of experts in the field tell you that an asteroid that will hit earth, but there is an expensive way to prevent it, are you really going to risk your life or that of your progeny on the 3% who think we have to do nothing? I think not.
Second; how many kilometer sized mirrors would humans have to put in space to reflect more concentrated sunlight on the Earth before one could say humans changed the climate? Then, what is the difference between that and huge number of molecular sized ones?
Lastly and thirdly for those fools who think they know better than the experts; what kind of slob wants to spew anything into the atmosphere without doing something about it? Do you clean your dwellings? And, does the wastewater not go to where it can be processed and restored? Conservation is CONSERVATIVE, not the nonsense spewed by these phony, religious reactionaries who try to pass themselves off as conservatives today!
The fact is that the science provides data that supports AGW. If you don't think that it does, then by all means, link to it and discuss why that data doesn't support AGW.
Why don't you deniers ever post anything in the scientific literature that supports your position? Because you have nothing. This is due to a) you never reading any of the scientific papers and (b) you aren't competent to comprehend those papers if you did.
Pretending that the science isn't settled is not good enough. That works only for ideologues who are anti-science and have an ideology to protect and those that are not knowledgeable about the science behind AGW.
Sorry, jeffbliss .... the "hockey stick" graph, has been proven to be erroneous and a fraud; a perfect example of data manipulation and selective application.
Your comments to warren also clearly illustrate the tactic of the typical leftist/environmentalist which is to demonize and name-call (eg. "right-wing ideologue", corporate shill") to bring discredit to your opponent. Your second paragraph begins by basically telling us to ".. pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.". There continues to be further evidence of a lack of warming over the last 10-15 years, but AGW has almost become a religion it seems. To deny or oppose it is worthy of nothing but scorn and condescending mockery.
The best thing for us "deniers" to do, is to just continue to examine and study the evidence (ALL THE EVIDENCE, not just the selectively reported information by the media), call attention to it, and ultimately learn from it. There is way more to learn about our earth's atmospheric and climate processes than is already claimed to be known with absolute certainty. I hope that we can ALL keep our collective minds OPEN to whatever the research uncovers; the science is NOT settled.
Excellent summary of the issue that we all face with this AGW hoax (might as well clearly indicate where I personally stand, at the outset here).
That said, I find a problem with ANY party involved in an issue of scientific study, especially with the level of complexity and depth as the study of atmospheric processes and climate, that claims anything with absolute certainty (e.g..."the science is settled.."). Those of us that believe this is a hoax, do so based on a careful and very broad-based examination of ALL aspects (scientific, social AND political) and the players involved. The "hoax" is not that there is, or is not "global warming, or "climate change", but that human activity is virtually the sole cause.
One of the few "certainties" that have been established is that the earth's climate IS changing, but more importantly HAS done so since the beginning of time, and will continue to do so, regardless of what we do. Can we, with enough certainty, PREDICT the global temperature 50 or 100 years from now? We CANNOT even predict to the degree of precision presented, the local temperature 2 weeks from now.
There has been too much selective reporting, manipulation of results, and data mining (suppression and ignoring of contrary or conflicting data) that has been exposed (e.g. the University of East Anglia emails, the selective data mining of the tree ring studies, etc.) to NOT call into question the motivations and goals of those perpetrating the fraud. THAT is the truly unfortunate result; the corruption of scientific practice, and protocols. It calls everything into question, or at least it should! Can anyone explain the change from "global warming" to "climate change"?.....I submit that the latter term is cover for when we actually find that there is no actual "warming". In fact, we are seeing exactly that; some recent reports based on ACTUAL measured data over the last 10+ years show NO WARMING. So, why is it that we virtually NEVER hear of such results in the mainstream media?... I leave all to ponder that one.
It is heartening to at least see some recognition and acknowledgement of these contrary viewpoints in a well-respected forum such as this.
You either don't know about greenhouse gas, which doesn't make you look good as it's the central issue behind AGW, you are a right-wing ideologue, which proves my point that it isn't AGW that is the problem but the implications it carries, or you're a corporate shill.
For those readers who aren't knowledgable enough, don't get sidetracked by this denier nonsense. The proof is in the scientific literature showing an increase in atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations starting at the beginning of the Inductrial Revolution and the attendant rise in mean global temperature. You must understand that climate is the signal and weather is the noise. So, when humans add greenhouse gases the energy of the system increases, thus changing its dynamic parameters, which is why weather patterns have been changing and becoming more chaotic. It's simple physics.
The fact is that the scientific reasearch supporting AGW is readily available. It is up to deniers like warren to refute it. He can't.
The earth is huge! ... But we aren't destroying the earth! There has been a lot of money made in this Al Gore scam by companies and governments. Lots of money. And lots of people hurt.
Wow, those are very scientific observations! How is this subject at all about Al Gore? Physics cares nothing about his opinion nor yours. For the record, I believe Al Gore was not hurting financially before he dedicated his message to trying to convince knuckleheads like you that physics is real, but since then he has donated all of his climate change work proceeds (where would that come from, exactly, and could it be a fraction of the compensation of fossil fuel executives?) to charity. Please explain how this hoax is supposed to work, because there are billions being made by the fossil fuel industries and there's an obvious incentive for them to invest heavily in massive PR schemes we are seeing, which they can easily afford, to keep the doubts and denialism thriving.
When you mention "people hurt," do you know how many people suffer from respiratory diseases and die every year from fossil fuel pollution? It's easy to google for statistics and they can be staggering.
Do you know how much the Koch brothers have made off fossil fuels or how much they have spent keeping you deniers fat, dumb, and happy? I'd bet they've SPENT more money on disinformation campaigns than Al Gore has RECEIVED from--where again does he "make" this money?-- solar energy sales as a side job?? Did you know that Koch funded a climate study by a famous science skeptic, Richard Muller, who was a darling of the denial industry, and this study turned the scientist's beliefs 180 degrees with a conclusion that global warming is absolutely real and almost certainly caused virtually 100% by human activities?
What's sad is that you refuse to deal with the objective scientific evidence the links human activity to global warming in preference of your economic ideology. And, as we've discussed, the source of your denial is that AGW implies that our ideology is the problem and therefore we must change our behavior for the greater good. That, in a nutshell, is your complaint as you have no scientific evidence to refute AGW.
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