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CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Global warming
CharlesM   1/31/2013 10:51:31 AM
The earth is huge! ... But we aren't destroying the earth! There has been a lot of money made in this Al Gore scam by companies and governments. Lots of money. And lots of people hurt.

Wow, those are very scientific observations!  How is this subject at all about Al Gore? Physics cares nothing about his opinion nor yours. For the record, I believe Al Gore was not hurting financially before he dedicated his message to trying to convince knuckleheads like you that physics is real, but since then he has donated all of his climate change work proceeds (where would that come from, exactly, and could it be a fraction of the compensation of fossil fuel executives?) to charity. Please explain how this hoax is supposed to work, because there are billions being made by the fossil fuel industries and there's an obvious incentive for them to invest heavily in massive PR schemes we are seeing, which they can easily afford, to keep the doubts and denialism thriving.

When you mention "people hurt," do you know how many people suffer from respiratory diseases and die every year from fossil fuel pollution? It's easy to google for statistics and they can be staggering.

Do you know how much the Koch brothers have made off fossil fuels or how much they have spent keeping you deniers fat, dumb, and happy? I'd bet they've SPENT more money on disinformation campaigns than Al Gore has RECEIVED from--where again does he "make" this money?-- solar energy sales as a side job??  Did you know that Koch funded a climate study by a famous science skeptic, Richard Muller, who was a darling of the denial industry, and this study turned the scientist's beliefs 180 degrees with a conclusion that global warming is absolutely real and almost certainly caused virtually 100% by human activities?

http://www.businessinsider.com/koch-brothers-funded-study-proves-climate-change-2012-7

Can you back anything up with facts?

 

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Re: Global warming
jeffbiss   1/31/2013 10:43:48 AM
What's sad is that you refuse to deal with the objective scientific evidence the links human activity to global warming in preference of your economic ideology. And, as we've discussed, the source of your denial is that AGW implies that our ideology is the problem and therefore we must change our behavior for the greater good. That, in a nutshell, is your complaint as you have no scientific evidence to refute AGW.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Re: No insult
jeffbiss   1/31/2013 10:32:54 AM
NO RATINGS
Tiorbinist,

What's your point? Do you have one? I again order you to try writing a coherent and succinct post refuting AGW. You won't because you have nothing to support your allegation!

tiorbinist
User Rank
Silver
Re: No insult
tiorbinist   1/31/2013 10:01:38 AM
NO RATINGS
"I order you to try writing a coherent and succinct post refuting AGW. I double dare you to even try."

Reason and Ignorance, the opposites of each other, influence the great bulk of mankind. If either of these can be rendered sufficiently extensive in a country, the machinery of Government goes easily on. Reason obeys itself; and Ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. -Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man" 1791.


Nice try, Jeffbiss. (And you even spelled my name right!) But as I said, if you want it, you have to ask, politely. Last time I checked, by the way, politely requires a bit more than just using "please" while denegrating everything you can think of about the person you are requesting from.

warren@fourward.com
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Global warming
warren@fourward.com   1/31/2013 5:53:18 AM
It is sad to say, that if the biggest collection of liars ever assembled in the history of man (our government) says there is global warming, then it must not be true. The earth is huge! Our impact is generally confined to pollution and construction and deconstruction (war). We are not the gods we think we are. We have been given the responsibility to tend and care for the earth. Yes, we don't always do a good job. But we aren't destroying the earth! There has been a lot of money made in this Al Gore scam by companies and governments. Lots of money. And lots of people hurt. And it will go on as long as the political correctness dominates science (a plank in the communist platform). We engineers need to make sure we are after truth and not funding...

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Are those skeptics correct??? Or Not???
William K.   1/30/2013 10:00:46 PM
NO RATINGS
Many of the skeptic side do routinely point out various errors in data collection by the believers, and if certainly does appear that some of the data is questionable. It  is certainly correct to ask for further proof when some data is demonstrsted to be incorrect, or even just potentially incorrect.

What I see is a group of people whoi were for many years crying and complaining about how very unfair it was that those of us in the USA had a living standard that was so much higher than many other people. Thyese folks apparently felt, and still feel, it seems, that we here are somehow guilty of some sort of horrible transgressions by having a much higher standard of living. In a free country they are certainly allowed to believe such things, and not die for believing them. BUT then there are others of us who feel no guilt at all about living in houses with real floors and glass in all the windows. I don't regret having electric lights, either. 

My point being that if an individual has repeatedly demonstrated that they have some specific personal agenda, we aould be wise to think that most of their activities would be tending to promote that same agenda. Therefore, it is natural to be a bit skeptical of these folks.

ON a completely different side of the discussion. there are indeed warming and cooling cycles in the history of the earth, and some of them are much longer than others. So is it also possible that we are experiencing the peaks of several cycles rising in unison, which has not happened in quite a while? And note that humans are not responsible for the susn's cycles, we don't think.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Re: No insult
jeffbiss   1/30/2013 6:55:11 PM
NO RATINGS
Tirobinist,

Where's the support to your contention that AGW is wrong? You haven't posted anything refuting it. Your nervousness notwithstanding.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Re: No insult
jeffbiss   1/30/2013 6:53:46 PM
NO RATINGS
Tiorbinist,

Another rambling post. If you're not trying to refute AGW, then what's your point? Why waste our time and thread space? So, I order you to try writing a coherent and succinct post refuting AGW. I double dare you to even try.

Remember that science is NOT about beliefs, it's about providing evidence to back up your claims. You haven't posted anything relevant to the AGW discussion.

tiorbinist
User Rank
Silver
Re: No insult
tiorbinist   1/30/2013 6:36:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Be honest, now.

"AGW is supported by the research" is only true so far as you have only seen research that supports it.

It always makes me a little nervous to talk to someone who is absolutely sure that something is so because they've never personally seen anything else. It doesn't tell me that it is so, just that they haven't very wide horizons.


But that's a point I was making while you were sitting and waiting for me to refute AGW for you, so you could defeat me, wasn't it?


Sorry.

tiorbinist
User Rank
Silver
Re: No insult
tiorbinist   1/30/2013 6:27:09 PM
Whoa, dude!

Since when do I dance to your whip?
Y'see, this is why you run off on monologs. I didn't say a thing about AGW: I said plenty about IPCC and the business of publishing scientific papers, and how unscientific science has become. And how you aren't doing anyone any good standing on your own self-carved ivory tower and insisting that no one can say anything unless they produce the papers that haven't been published. Which is, to be blunt, pretty bully-ish.

If you want me to refute AGW, you're going to have to ask politely. I'm not too likely to bother, though. Once you throw away the hockey stick, the bad math that produced it, the bad math that was synthesized to show that the first set of bad math was good math, and the whole of RealScience.com and Argyle and their arrogant associates, it's hard to prove global warming is happening just like you claim, and a lot harder to claim that it's caused by mankind alone. But hey, that's _my_ opinion. I'm not forcing that on you: you're happy with your beliefs, and apparently they empower you.

I am, however, quite willing to challenge your implicit claim that you can dictate to others how they can go about making their points. It's just another way to try to rob someone of their right to free speech without actually admitting that you have no basis for a rebuttal.

If you're saving the real basis for your rebuttal, by all means, play the card. We're all waiting, with bated breath. But put the ad hominem attacks and the school-yard bully aside, and man up.

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