Well, we are seeing actual data plots now... Where is the one i asked for -- someone has the information. Simple chart -- sources for atmospheric CO2 for a year (or w/e) -- shown by percentage. I think it would answer a lot of questions...
I see pretty graphs -but what is behind them? they look very much like the dubious "hockey stick" graph. Are they based on modeled data (i.e. ficticous) or real measurments? I see a lot of technical looking things from you - but no actual data or reasoned explanations to answer our questions.
And can you tell me how you come up with a "gloabl temperature"? There will never be a consensus if we can't agree on the basics!
You did "this"? Your compalint is that they present no data? You believe?
Have you ever tried to look anything up? Have you ever went to your local library and delved into the scientific journals kept there? Have you ever contacted a researcher for their source data? If you're dissatisfied with their data, have you ever tried to perform your own research?
I have to thank you for presenting a great example of the average denier. I don't know where you get your information but science is all about participating, and it is obvious that you have no such inclination. If you did, you would have done something more than listening to right-wing talking heads and reading right-wing blogs.
Stop being lazy and do some work. You claim to be an engineer yet have chosen to be spoon-fed denier talking points and have chosen to not do your own work, including understanding how climatologists have looked at the implications of solar activity on climate. So, how can you engage in a meanful discussion?
What I am saying, is that the sun is the primary heat source for our solar system and planet. There is evidence from other planets in our solar system that the earth's warming/cooling trends are not unique. The arbitrary decision to not consider the sun to a greater degree appears to be a suspect choice of "climatologists".
Indeed all the forcings are taken into account and the solar component, which is insignificant anyway, has been diminishing for some time.
However, less well publicised are the indirect and direct influence of aerosols mainly from poorly regulated coal burning sources which reflects sunlight and cancels a lot of the warming out. Reduce this to improve air quality in China for example, and the forcing gets even higher! This is our dilemma.
I did about 10 years ago and the temp data correlated nicely with the measured solar activity. This was, of course, from an astronomy perspective with objective data and data collectors at a limited number of sites.
My primary complaint with the whole "consesus" crowd is that they present NO DATA, just their analysis. I don't take any analysis at face value without the raw data available to back it up.
I also beleieve that their analysis is based on flawed or skewed understanding of basic physics principles. There is always room for discussion over the applicability of one principle over another, but the AGW crowd demands that we all bow at their alter instead of addressing valid complaints with their methods.
"I consider this completely valid." Environmental Committe President, International Council of Scientific Unions
"An astonishing service for humanity." Professor of Environmental Studies, University of California
"We have absolutely no time to lose." Director of Science and Technology, State of Massachusetts
This is what it says on the back cover of my copy of the dvd, "Stopping the Coming Ice Age" from 1988 -- endorsed by science (Buckminster Fuller), Hollywood (Dennis Weaver) and the music industry (Sting).
You really need to read the scientific literature. Climatologists take solar radiation into account as it's the reason that the earth is warm enough for life as we know it, with a little internal warmth, like that around deep sea vents, for good measure.
What climatologists discuss with regards to the sun is solar variance correlated with temperature. What is seen when one looks at solar activity is that there is essentially no correlation between the rise seen in earth's termperature and solar activity. In other words, the increase we've seen cannot be explained by the sun.
Again, read what the climatologists have written rather than what the mass media, including right-wing outlets, presents.
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