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Pete Ostapchuk
User Rank
Iron
Re: Engine oil not so good
Pete Ostapchuk   2/4/2012 8:23:24 PM
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Hi Steve,

    My mistake. The comment used the term "dry out" not "evaporate". "Evaporate" was used in conjunction with WD-40. I also messed up on the way oil. I asked for way oil and the fellow sold me weigh oil. It should be way oil.

    As for my Hendey lathe, I use plain old detergent 10 W 30 motor oil. I don't have a lubrication chart for that lathe. The underground oil deposits had not yet formed when Hendey went out of business. If I were smart, I would make a lubrication chart for my Hendey lathe using the chart from my South Bend lathe as a guide. Maybe I'll get another hundred years out of it. I am the poster child for "Do as I say, not as I do". I wonder if the detergent aspect of engine oils has to do with the combustion byproducts which would not be present in electric motor bearings.

    When it's 40 degrees F in the gargage where the Hendey is, it's good to have the multi-viz oil. When I win the lottery, I'm putting a heater out there.

     Regards,   Pete  

Steve Greenfield
User Rank
Iron
Re: Engine oil not so good
Steve Greenfield   2/4/2012 1:55:52 PM
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Who said oils evaporate?

What I said still stands. You are not using generic motor oil for your lathe, you are using specific NONDETERGENT oils.

Pete Ostapchuk
User Rank
Iron
Re: Engine oil not so good
Pete Ostapchuk   2/4/2012 12:17:57 PM
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Hi Steve,

    Lathes "should" get oiled a lot. I would hope that most do. One of my friends worked at South Bend Lathe and now has his own machine tool business. He says that the most common failure mode of lathes is from lack of lubrication. Most of the points on my South Bend lathe get oiled with non detergent SAE 30 W motor oil. A few places get SAE 10 W. There is also spindle oil and weigh oil. These were the lubricants recommended by the factory. It would do my heart good to know that 99% are at least going to grab some kind of oil. All  my vehicles use 5 W 30 or 10 W 30. As a flaming friction bearing (before Timkens) was rolling down the tracks on the NYCRR, the fellow in the control tower said that was good because it means that there is still oil in the bearing system!?! At least it was headed into the yard instead of out on to the main line.

    As to the notion of oil evaporating, more insight can be gotten from the account of Millikan's oil droplet experiment. It was one of the classical experiments in physics. It was done to measure the charge of an electron. Water dropplets were used but evaporated so oil was substituted.    Regards,   Pete   

Steve Greenfield
User Rank
Iron
Re: Oil & Syringe
Steve Greenfield   2/3/2012 2:22:50 PM
NO RATINGS
Another of my pet peeves... WD40 is not lubricant, and that silver cloth tape is DUCK tape. Both have their uses, but they are not patent medicines.

Duct tape is aluminum tape. Duck tape breaks down after a relatively short time. The adhesive gets hard as a rock and the fabric falls apart.

If an HVAC guy stars putting silver cloth tape on my furnace and ducting, he can get the hell out because he doesn't know his job.

There are no fix-alls.

Steve Greenfield
User Rank
Iron
Re: Engine oil not so good
Steve Greenfield   2/3/2012 2:17:33 PM
NO RATINGS
Lathes get oiled a lot, versus a motor in something like an humidifier that may get oiled every few years. So oil running out is less of an issue. In fact, it probably helps keep fine metal dust from collecting in/around the bearings where it would cause more wear.

You also need to quantify -which- automotive oils you are using. I'm using automotive oils on my lathes (an old Logan and a newer HF mini lathe/mill), but I'd never put 10-40W on it. They are specific kinds of oil, one a thinner lube for rotating bearings and the other a rather thick and sticky oil for the ways. I don't recall off the top of my head what they are.

But I do recall that I am specifically NOT to use a detergent containing motor oil.

The problem is that when you say motor oil without specifying anything else, 99% out there are going to think they can go grab a quart of 20-50W from their garate.

Pete Ostapchuk
User Rank
Iron
Re: Made to Fail
Pete Ostapchuk   2/3/2012 2:12:26 PM
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Hi Ervin,

    I know how you feel designing it right the first time. When you build a one of a kind machine, you can't make up the development cost with production runs. The customer doesn't want to fund a lot of R&D. Come up with a good design and make it work right the first time. I won't say it's easy. We had a saying in my unit in Germany. "We've been doing so much for so long with so little that now we can do anything with nothing"   Pete

Steve Greenfield
User Rank
Iron
Re: Am I the only one...
Steve Greenfield   2/3/2012 2:08:49 PM
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Shudder. That's what I do when I hear someone say they are using WD40 as a lubricant. I agree with what Larry M had to say about it.

 

My father destroyed the door on a car of mine. Whenever I'd visit, he'd putter around my car for a while. Unbeknownst to me, he was also dousing my door hinges, hood hinges, locks, and other sliding and rotating surfaces with WD40. If it didn't have a zert on it, it got WD40.

So a few weeks after a visit, my doors would start squeeking. I'd try to relube them, which isn't easy without taking them off. Rinse, repeat. Within a couple years, I had to lift my door to shut it due to wear on the hinges. And I kept having to put graphite in the locks as they got harder and harder to turn.

I went to him for advice about it, although he's not a mechanic he was manager of an auto parts store. That's how I found out he'd been forcefully spraying WD40 in the hinges every time I visited, since I'd bought the car.

I have not found any spray lubes to be particularly good for any length of time. Too thin, I think. In general, rotating surfaces and sintered bearings get dripless oil, and sliding surfaces get an appropriate grease.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Am I the only one...
Rob Spiegel   2/3/2012 12:17:00 PM
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Hmmm. Good piece of information, Larry. I didn't realize household oil was available in spray containers. I knew that WD40 was a water displacement fluid, but I didn't realie it could do damage to surfaces.

ervin0072002
User Rank
Gold
Re: Made to Fail
ervin0072002   2/3/2012 10:54:49 AM
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Pete where i work we have to design things right the first time. No room for error. And yes we have made the mistake of designing wrong. The tests we place in our initial product have always caught flaws in our design. as far as the placement of components i am not involved with. That is more an art then engineering. Some people are very good at it. Others are clueless. We also consider installation damage as well. Our motto here is "Make it Idiot Proof" Regardless of who will install it.

Pete Ostapchuk
User Rank
Iron
Re: Made to Fail
Pete Ostapchuk   2/3/2012 9:18:14 AM
NO RATINGS
Hi Ervin,

    I know what it's like to work some place that never has time to design it right but always has time to do it over.

    And then there are the designs where you have to remove a motor mount to get to a spark plug or remove the windshield wiper assembly to replace the alternator. Do they do this so that the owner will throw up his hands in disgust and pay the dealership the big bucks to do it? My wife had the dealership do an oil change. When she got home, it was leaking. I checked the plug and filter. They were OK. The dealer said it's the shaft seal. That didn't help but they suggested a new engine! The car company had to eat that one. But then the cruise control didn't work after the new engine went in. They said it was our baby. I asked the dealership if it was more likely that my wife broke the housing on the servo while getting in and out of the car or that it got broken during the engine change. The service manager got a strange look on his face and fixed it for no charge. Like someone said, I have seen the enemy and they are us. I'm rambling,   Pete

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