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Thanks Jon  and Digi-Key for the great lecture.

Iron

Thank you for the tips in this session!

Iron

Thank you - looking forward to the next 5 sessions.

Iron

once again Thank you Jon for the great lacture!

Iron

Very informative slide.

Iron

maybe i am, in my job practice, 30% is about electronics, instrumentation & controls. with this, i need to prepare my self in line with the subject frequently with the help through DIGI-KEY CONTINUING EDUCATION CENTER.

with that, i am thankful for having it though online...

thanks to DESIGN NEWS & STAFF...LECTURERS AND COLLEAGUES...

thank you sir jon, sir alex and colleagues taking-up this course...happy good day!

now, listening the Q & A between sir jon & sir alex...interesting to learn more aside from my specific job in practice...

thanks sir jon for the presentation, very well informative...i will treasure those slides for references...

now, i already finished the course, MICROCONTROLLERS BASIC

another course to take and that is MICROCONTROLLERS ADVANCE

In general, EXCELLENT PRESENTATION, A VERY WELL INFORMATIVE AND TIPS for the week course subject.

too short slide but very informative...

i am now on slide 17

i am now on slide 11...

hello sir alex...i am gonna start now...

i will go first with the slides before going through with sir jon...thanks

once again, here i am for final day of the class...

you know, this is the benefits if the lessons are already in the archived, so you can finish them all as you like, hehehe...the truth is, i am staying the whole day in my flat focussing with this lesson and finish them all...very interesting and well informative on every discussion like i am in the university class room again...

anyway, i will take a little bit rest while downloading such material as reference to go though it...thanks again...

Thank you Jon, very nice tips also.

Iron

Thank you Jon and Alex.

Iron

When should a WDT be used and do you not need it?

Iron

I hope you come back with another serie of seminars...

Iron

very usefull these T&T

Iron

Good series of lectures may come back later to review some.

Iron

Found a lot of miscellaneous tips useful. Thank you!

Iron

The Microchip link for Compiled Tips 'N Tricks Guide was good reading.

Iron

Second time listening to it. Glad this is archived.

Iron

Good introductory class!

Thanks for mentioning Built in Self Test (BIST) and Design for Test (DFT) as well as touching on Environmental concerns (at least as they related to PWB Mfg.) as this is VERY important today.

Thanks Jon and Alex.  Great lecture.

Iron

Woo Hoo!  Have to love getting out of the lecture early on Fridays (even though I am listening to this on Thursday)!

Iron

I had never thought that you would need to put a debounce on an interrupt; always a good idea to use one with a button, though.

Iron

I guess if you are paying attention, the context lets you know.  But, I have found myself having to search a few times only to find that we were a few slides ahead or behind of the one that I thought we were talking about.

Iron

I think there are a few times that Jon has gone to the next slide, and not really told anyone. 

Iron

Thank you for your illustrative and practical introduction to microcontrollers.

 

Iron

Very nice job on this series, Jon.  Thank you!!

Iron

Great series! Thanks!!!

Iron

Second Time around listening to be sure I did not miss anything. Thanks again for making this available

Iron

PIC books I like ... seeing how everyone has their own list ...

Han-Way Huang       PIC Microcontroller: An Introduction to Software & Hardware Interfacing

Lucio Di Jasio           Programming 16 Bit PIC Microcontrollers in C

You can get started with PIC by just downloading the free MPLAB IDE and Simulator and then the basic trial Compiler for free.

You can always get just bare parts DigiKey or anyone and as long as you are below 40MHz, perf bd or breadboard should be fine.  Look at app notes and you can just use serial with a bootloader to program the chip.

I started with a PIC Programmer/Debugger and a startup dev board from Microchip and I feel like I invested wisely and saved myself a ton of headaches by just taking the plunge.

 

I have found the MPLAB IDE and Simulator to be great.  I have developed a number of PIC16, PIC18, and PIC24 projects with both the standard MicroChip Compiler and the CCS compiler. 

If you have never tried PIC, I encourage you to give them a try!

Will PIC MCU's progressively get faster in speed or has it relatively plateaued?

 

Iron

The new processors that are developed today are many and varied.  It's hard to stay upto date with all of them.  I keep getting emails on different ones that are developed by different companies.

Iron

The new 32 bit PIC's are amazingly fast, cheap and powerful.  Good for hobbiests and professionals alike.

Iron

the PIC microcontroller is so useful over many different environments.

Iron

I've had some licenses that are indifinite.

Iron

some companies send a 30 day license with the downloaded IDE.

Iron

without trying one can not achieve enlightenment. so if your going to learn pick something that you'll be passionate about.

Iron

@aekpic877, yes you can.  Do you want to though?  Might be easier to go ARM.

Iron

i want to design a mp3 multi rreader with touch screen and up 4 output (4 audio channls), the content saved on sd card or stick usb , is this application can be designed with mocrocontroller

Iron

I have had to use the archived lectures to attend this class, but I have gotten a lot out of this series.  I too look forward to future classes in this semester.  Thank you Jon and you too Alex.

Iron

@ didymus7, I'd like to receive that audiofiles. Thank you at advance

Iron

If anyone is interested in the audio from these 5 lectures, send me an email at didymus7@gmail.com and I can email you them.  They are small, about 10 to 15 MB each and are mp3 format.

Platinum

Jon and Alex, thanks very much for this week's series.  I have learned a lot and look forward to future classes!

Gold

Looks like I have exhausted the pool of questions that remained unanswered.  To all still monitoring this chat, thanks for your comments, questions, and answers that helped others.  Have a pleasant weekend.  Signing off. --Jon Titus, Herriman, UT.

Blogger

You too. Thanks for this very elucidating week.

Iron

Q:  heh ... according to amazon, I already have Make: Electronics ... unfortunately amazon does not tell me, in which pile of unread books I put it ;->

 

A:  It would be a nice feature if Amazon would do that.  Have a nice weekend. --Jon

Blogger

Q:  I just got a glance on the last slide and this question came to mind: the full version of companies' IDEs come only in CD? Or is there a way to legally download it? 

 

A:  Easier for the vendor if you download and they don't have to spend money to send you a CD, so all code is available for download.  Even IDEs you pay for come as downloads, but with a license code.

Blogger

heh ... according to amazon, I already have Make: Electronics ... unfortunately amazon does not tell me, in which pile of unread books I put it ;->

Iron

Q:  does slide 3 affect programmable variable linear digital power supplies?

 

A:  Yes.  Power supplies are often the "weak link" and the first part of a system to fail.

Blogger

Q: how can u get 5a from 7805

 

A:  Someone suggested using a heatsink.  Buy an LM7805 is a TO-3 package and buy a compatoble bolt-on heat sink.  The TO-3 package will dissipate more heat than a TO-220 tab package.  Digi-Key sells part number 497-1005-ND for about $US 3.40.

Blogger

Q:  How static sensitive are Pic gpio pins?

 

A:  Assume all pins are susceptible to damage by a direct or nearby static discharge or even by the buildup of static charges.  Work on a static-dissipating mat and wear a grounded wrist strap.  I know many people don't do this, but they might end up spending hours trying to troubleshoot a hidden problem causes by a zapped MCU.  The 3M company makes static-dissipating mats for work surfaces.

Blogger

Q:  Jon, can that jumper shorting trick activate ifdef debug code?

 

A:  The #ifdef is a conditional-compiler code and not part of the actual MCU program.  You would test the input pin for the presence of the jumper with a simple c-language if statement and then branch to the diagnostic or self-test code.

Blogger

Q: What would be your recommendation for measuring Battery voltage thru a micro A/D, say a 9-volt battery?  Simply using a voltage divider causes current draw while the micro is shut down.

 

A:  Yes, if you use two resistors to create a voltage divider you continue to draw current all the time.  Use a small NPN transistor between the resistors and ground and turn it on with an output pin at logic 0.  Then current will flow through the resistors and you can measure the voltage.  Just account for the voltage drop across the NPN transistor when you calculate the resistor values needed to get a voltage you can measure.

Blogger

Are counterfeit chips easily identified once you power them up and try to do something with them?  i.e. do they contain something close to the functionality of the real device?

 

Q: for hardware debouncing people use smitt trigger switch..is there a suggest about which particular chip people used?

 

A:  I just use two cross-coupled NAND gates and an SPDT pushbutton.  Simple, clean.  See: http://ecelab.com/switch-debounce-NAND.htm.

Blogger

Q: conterfit products, how often does this occur?

 

A:  More often than you might think.  Recently the FBI made arrests at a company that imported counterfeit components from Asian suppliers.  Some of those chips went into aerospace and military equipment!

Blogger

Q:  Any recommendation to design/build my own DVM?

 

A:  Good grief, no.  Buy from Extech, Triplet, or Fluke.  Those are brands I trust.  People can recomment other brands and models, too.

Blogger

Q: Jon, is Terasic a trustworthy supplier?

 

A:  Sorry, I don't know them.

Blogger

Q: This question is a bit off subject, but what is the job market like for an independent application designer? Is there a niche for the small business person?

 

A:  The problem is making contacts that lead to business.  It's a difficult road to travel unless you have a solid reputation and a lot of experience.  You're probably better off starting work with a company where you can learn on the job and then take those skills to your own business.  It's good to have that experience on your resume.  Whatever path you take, stay up to date on new technologies pertinent to your field.  These days It's easy to fall behind.

Blogger

Q:  The problem with pcb manufacturers is it only becomes cost effective if you do multiple boards of the same type. Small batches etching at home is more cost effective.

 

A:  By the time you get all the materials, create a good 1:1 negative or positive film, etch the boards, and drill them, let alone deal with through holes, a commercial board service proves more economical and without the problems of safe and legal chemical disposal.  I have etched boards with a commercial UV-sensitive film and the results were OK, but not great.  Maybe the process has gotten simpler and the photo-sensitive films better, but even for small hobby projects it's a pain.

Blogger

Q: Does Digi-Key have an ongoing blog site for topics like these - nice forum for interaction?

 

A:  Yes, check out the Digi-Key "TechXchange."  Also go to a new site, microcontrollercentral.com.

Blogger

Q: How to choose the I/O pins for self diagnose routines, such as JTAG interface? What's the software tools for micro-controller to browse through stack info? again what pins are involved?

 

A:  The MCU manufacturers designate pins for the JTAG connections, but often they share functions with other devices, such as general-purpose I/O, analog-to-digital converter input, and so on.  So, you might not have the pins available for JTAG in a real design.  While using a development board or prototype, you want those pins free for the JTAG connections.  For self diagnostics you use the MCU to check its connections, write a test message on any attached display, let someone test a keypad, and so on.  There's more to it, of course, but the idea is to ensure the MCU and the attached devices operate properly before you go into the actual application code.

Blogger

those schmartboard adapters really look very convenient, thanks for the great tip.

Iron

Jon, thank you very much for a lot of useful tips.

Iron

Thanks much Jon, week of info was great

Iron

Thanks, Jon! have nice weekend.

Iron

I'm taking a lunch break, back later to answer more questions.  Check back in a few hours for my responses.  Thank you all for participating.  It was fun. --Jon

Blogger

Q:  @Jon: Is there any tips'n tricks available for other microcontrollers, like MSP430 family from Texas Instruments or for LPC family from NXP ?

 

A:  Sure, and a lot of helpful application notes, too.  Go to the MCU manufacturers' web sites and look through their literature, or search their sites for "tips tricks" (without the quotes).  You'll find more than you imagined.

Blogger

Another type of dead bug style is known as Manhattan style - made with pads cut from pcb material and glued to a copper board.

Iron

Another good alternative to breadboards for analog is good-old wire wrap.

Q:  with regard to the sw interrupt 2nd type, some AVR chips hardware automatically disable all interruptswhen an interrupt is entered, so the delay executing the entire routine in the interrupt may cause a timing problem.  What other method do u like to use in a case like this??

 

A:  Some MCUs do that--disable all interrupts when they enter an ISR.  I'd bet you can turn the interrupt back on , though, via a bit in a register.

Blogger

How to choose the I/O pins for self diagnose routines, such as JTAG interface?

What's the software tools for micro-controller to browse through stack info? again what pins are involved?

 

Iron

Q:  Jon, Breadbords generate lots of nosie, any other way recommand?

 

A:  Yes, they do, and for analog circuits, the capacitance between contacts can cause problems.  To reduce noise and capacitance use the "dead bug" prototype approach.  Ren a Google image search for "dead bug prototype" (without the quotes).  One of my colleagues used 10-megohm resistors soldered to a copper PCB ground plane and binding posts (the ungrounded end) and built a circuit from resistor to resistor.  Analog expect Bob Pease at National Semiconductor (now TI) used this technique a lot.

Blogger

We ended up adding a USBDM board to the mix

Iron

KevinJam, be careful - we have driver issues from our Freescale HCS12 boards - cadets here at the Academy get their laptops reimaged to Win7 64-bit and Freescale is not planning any upgrades to the USB drivers for their board.  The latest and greatest may be different.

Iron

Q:  @jon: do you prototype with through-hole parts? When do you go for SMD parts?

 

A:  Both.  I use through-hole devices as much as possible for prototypes because these old eyes have a tough time seeing the tiny SMT parts.  I have glasses (see photo at tope) and use a magnifier, too.  It's also easier to replace through-hole components if I need to modify something.  I like the SMT chip adapters from SchmartBoard and use them to turn SMT chips into through-hole components.  Their boards "self align" chip pins with contacts.  Get some good solder flux, too.  I recommend ChipQuik.

Blogger

MPLAB !CD3 works great with Windows 7

Iron

With Windows 7 now out, Can I effectively run software tools in XP emulation mode? Have Microcontroller manufacturers started to upgrade their software tools to be compatible with Win 7?

Iron

If you add extra rectifiers, you automatically drop the supply voltage by the voltage across two diodes (1.4 volts for a bridge) and those diodes give off heat!  You could include one diode to prevent blowing the MCU circuit with a power supply of the wrong polarity.  Better:  Buy and use good-quality power supplies.

Blogger

What about http://batchpcb.com?  It looks real cheap, any experience with them?

Iron

Q:  It should be noted that it can be sometimes tricky to program older PIC chips such as PIC16F84 using pickit2/3 which most circuits on the web and in books are based on. Must use the application provided by the programmer rather than through MPLAB.

 

A:  Good point.  Check for compatibility between MCU programming tools and the MCU you want to use.  Some older hardware will not program newer chips.  Manufacturers provide this compatibility information.

Blogger

Does Digi-Key have an ongoing blog site for topics like these - nice forum for interaction?

Iron

Question : Can you indicate some good reference books on digital hardawre troubleshooting? Thanks!

Iron

Q:  manya: Alright. Thank you. Jon just seemed to be emphasizing that Chinese microcontrollers aren't very good. 

 

A:  I want to emphasize the lack of support and lack of true compatibility with such products.  If they fail, how do you get in touch with them?  Do they support software upgrades and bug fixes?  Probably not.

Blogger

For choosing the OP-AMP most important factor is Low OFF-Set of op-amp. Mostly this type of Op-Amps are more expensive.

Iron

Thanks, Jon, for all those lectures. I liked Part IV specially. Gave a lot of idead and insights about debugging. :)

Q:  I tend to use simple tools to start deciding my troubleshooting approach. It seems to be more intuitive to me by feeling my way around the situation. then go to appropriate test equipment for the detail.

 

A:  Good point.  No need to use an expensive sophisticated tool if something simple (and easy to set up) does the job.

Blogger

Jon, thank you for all week lectures

Iron

ooohhh... now that is a compelling book title: "30 arduino projects for the evil genius" :-D

Iron

Thank you Jon for a informative week. I have lots of new ideas to consider now!

Iron

Q:  @Jon knowing the assembly language of an MCU is just for curiosity or is it useful?

 

A:  I learned FORTRAN II on an IBM mainframe and then assembly language on a minicomputer.  The assembly-language experience helped me better analyse what I wanted to do and it put me in complete control of the processor.  I liked it and found the education helpful.  Now, though, I'd rather use a high-level language such as C or even BASIC.  I guessw it depends on how much you want to know about how the MCUs work down at the chip.

Blogger

Thanks Jon, I mostly use 1 k-ohm for TTL and 10k-ohm for CMOS.

Iron

@Jon - Is there a way for us to download only your audio stream from the Design News site?  We might be able to have our own archive of the slides AND the audio stream that goes with it.

Iron

There is also IC Op-Amp Cookbook by Walter Jung

Iron

Q:  Jon, for +5V Vcc, what is best range of pull-up resistor?

 

A:  It depends.  You need enough resistance to pull up an input to a logic-1 state.  A 1-kohm resistor usually does fine, although CMOS circuits can use a 10 Kohm resistor.  In the "old days," we used 1K resistors for all pullups.  I still have a drawer full of them.

Blogger

The minimum PCBs required at both of their PCB houses is jus two.

Iron

2.2 k ohm pull-up resister for 5 V (TTL) - (TTL CookBook)

Iron

A good op-amp text I use is "Operational Amplifiers and Linear Integrated Circuits" by Coughlin and Driscoll.

Q:   Do you have a recommendation for learning the "basic" building blocks of circuit design? Like those in the today's slides.

 

A:  Yes.  Buy "Make: Electronics," by Charles Platt, from O'Reilly Media. ISBN: 978-0-596-15374-8.  About $35.  Very good book for beginners.

Blogger

The problem with pcb manufacturers is it only becomes cost effective if you do multiple boards of the same type. Small batches etching at home is more cost effective.

Iron

PCB123 and ExpressPCB are good free schematic capture and board layout programs. It's hard to do BGA though.

Iron

Jon, for +5V Vcc, what is best range of pull-up resistor?

Iron

Q: If you have to chose an opamp chip,..how do you choose between ttl and cmos? 

 

A:  You wouldn't consider an op-amp as either TTL or CMOS.  Instead, look at the characteristics you need, such as bandwidth, noise, etc.  I bet Analog Devices, Linear Technology, Microchip, and Texas Instruments have op-amp selection guides and application notes.  See also, "Op Amp Application Handbook," from Newnes-Elsevier (publisher). ISBN: 978-0-7506-7844-5.

Blogger

start with breadboard, then solder on a perf board, then home made pcb, then outsource pcb.

Iron

Plated through holes become a challenge as well - you may end up spending a lot of time creating your own vias.

Iron

This question is a bit off subject, but what is the job market like for an independent application designer? Is there a niche for the small business person?

Q: When you have completed testing and wish to commit to final circuit board design, is it better to outsource board design or long-run better to obtain own board design equipment?

A:  Do it yourself.  You know details about the circuit that a design house doesn't know.  For example, where does the current flow.  A design house might use a 10 mil trace where you are running an amp of current.

Don't bother building boards at home.  There are companies that do it better and cheaper.

Iron

@kevinjam, I prototype first PCB at home, then use a fab house to make the PCB's, much better quality and I can't do anything more than double sided at home. All design files Gerber files are done at home. The chemical process is messy.

Iron

, Diode should be germanium, even worst

 

A: I didn't say germanium is good for regulator. Germanium diod is better for use in the comprator circuit for detection of low Battery. Because germanium is liner, even is very good for temperature sensor up to 100 degree celsius.

Iron

Q:  A question about communications between micro's. If I need to have a group of modules each with a microcontroller communicating with a master microcontroller( and potentialy up to 15 feet between them), is RS485 a good protocol to use or would one of the others mentioned be better?

 

A:  RS485 is fine for that type of application.  You can find many good '485 driver ICs.  Use high-quality wire for communications.

Blogger

Q: When you have completed testing and wish to commit to final circuit board design, is it better to outsource board design or long-run better to obtain own board design equipment?

 

A:  Having an outside service design the board will cost a lot of money.  You can follow design guidelines and create your own good board.  There are articles on the Internet about the typical "design rules" that help you create a solid design.  Things like proper grounding, use of ground plaves, decoupling of signals between layers, etc.  Some of the large tool companies probably have online courses and white papers, too.

Blogger

the only things I found that are useless, are the things I don't know.

Iron

Forrest Mims is a legendary DIY author from the old days, as is Don Lancaster, of TTL and RTL Cookbook fame. Both are still alive, I should add. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Blogger

Thanks for the course Jon.

A question about communications between micro's. If I need to have a group of modules each with a microcontroller communicating with a master microcontroller( and potentialy up to 15 feet between them), is RS485 a good protocol to use or would one of the others mentioned be better?

Iron

@Franchzilla: knowing the assembly language of an MCU is just for curiosity or is it useful?

I've found it useful.  It sometimes lets you do things you can't do with C.  Also, it let me understand and work around a compiler bug.

Iron

Great week Jon. Looking forward to the next sessions. I do believe I will go back and listen to the archived lectures once again. When I take notes, my ears seem to shut off.

@franchzilla: necessary: no. useless: no.

Iron

If you have to chose an opamp chip,..how do you choose between ttl and cmos? 

Iron

@jon: Do you have a recommendation for learning the "basic" building blocks of circuit design? Like those in the today's slides.

Iron

Q: Use of passive impedance matching also - Pi or T resistance networks; helps with power

 

A:  Good point.  You must think about conducted EMI and radiated EMI.  Many companies make good EMI line filters.  Thanks for mentioning that.

Blogger

@s.schmiedl We learned assembly before C in university. It was useful, but I don't know if it was neccessary.

Q: When you have completed testing and wish to commit to final circuit board design, is it better to outsource board design or long-run better to obtain own board design equipment?

Iron

@Alex - might be helpful to listeners if you had some way to boost the gain on the audio.  I had to max my laptop's audio gain to hear everything Jon was saying.

Also, someone made the suggestion that the chat archive be "scrubbed" to remove extraneous comments like "is the audio on", etc.  That's a good idea.

 

All in all, a great 5 session Intro.  Here's hoping the rest of the 180 Days of Education as good as these have been.  I am signing up for everything that's available.

 

Iron

Q: Jon, do you know any good books on hi-tech C for PIC's?

 

A:  Not for Hi-Tech specifically.  For a good C book, look at "Practical C Programming," by Steve Oualline.

Blogger

@franchzilla: if you learn it out of curiosity, you will find it useful. Happened to me :-)

Iron

Q:  Whats your opinion on forrest mims books?

 

A:  I like them.  Forrest is a good guy and a good writer.

Blogger

@FrankBishop couldn't agree more. If you know fundamentals and know how to educate yourself, you can do anything.

@Jon, do you know any good books on hi-tech C for PIC's?

Iron
@bobybacs this is it stanleytechs@yahoo.com
Iron

@Jon knowing the assembly language of an MCU is just for curiosity or is it useful?

Fundementals are key so dont think

older obsolute stuff has no value

Much of what you learn can be

updated when you get your hands on

better equipment and componets

Another book for PIC enthusiasts: "PIC Programming for Begibbers," by Mark Spencer, but it uses assembly-language, not C.  ISBN: 978-0-87259-089-2.

Blogger

Use of passive impedance matching also - Pi or T resistance networks; helps with power

Iron

Jon, thanks for the great presentations all week.

To all, I enjoyed the chatter and picked up some new ideas along the way. Thanks.

Iron

Thank you for your time. Good intro for newbies.

Iron

The internet is really great for young engineers. I am still in my electronic engineering course and it is sometimes kind of osbolete here in Brazil. But with the internet I am always updated about new technologies and new projects to develop. 

Jon, Thank you for the excellent course.

Iron

What does he mean, "We'll see you on the other side with live chat?"  Where do we go for that?

Iron

thank you .. great session .. great week

Iron

great presentation, thank you alex and jon

Iron

Thank you Jon and Alex. Has been a great week!

Iron

Thanks Jon and Alex!

Iron

Many thanks, Jon!

Iron

Thank you Jon and Alex!

Iron

thanks Jon for your presentation

Iron

Thank you Jon, this was great itro for me

 

danlafleur - I agree, depends on the problems.  The best is if you don't have problems.

Iron

Here's the book Jon mentioned:

http://www.makershed.com/product_p/9780596153748.htm

Iron

@kenstan: can I contact you on e-mail ?

Iron

Thank you Jon and Alex. I can't say enough how good this overview into today's MPU's world. I'm looking forward to next week's module.

Iron

Thanks Jon for the series of lectures. I have gained a lot of understanding from your experience and knowledge. Thanks. I hope I will learn more from you in future.. 

Iron

Yes Jon You are right. When I passed out Engineering in 1971, I didnot have such resources of the web lectures or on line materials

Iron

I personally like electronics-lab.com/blog

Iron

slk, I tend to use simple tools to start deciding my troubleshooting approach. It seems to be more intuitive to me by feeling my way around the situation. then go to appropriate test equipment for the detail.

Iron

Just foung a couple of good blogs...

1) http://handsonelectronics.blogspot.com/

2) http://handsonarduino.blogspot.com/

 

 

Iron

Thanks Jon..Great course. Enjoyed thoroughly.

Iron

Whats your opinion on forrest mims books?

Iron

@Gwailo88, i believe it was "Make: Electronics"

Iron

"Make: electronics" by Charles Platt

Iron

Thank you Jon for talking about built in test features! picture being on a deserted island, how do you test?

Iron

danlafleur  -  if you have a logic analizer, if not, a scoppe is good too

Iron

book name:

make: electronics

Iron

I don't know if there is any other portuguese speaker here, but in Portuguese there is Saber Eletronica, which is quite good.

What was the book he said?

Iron

thanks bobybace how do i get in touch?

Iron

I loved Popular Electronics!

Iron

I agree, logic probe is a great way to troubleshoot by "walking" down the signal chain. It also checks for activity if something is dead.

Iron

For the archived version of the course presentations can someone scrub the posts?  There is a lot of good information from the posts but things like "I have a lot of trouble geting the audio to work", "Use google to open the ppt" and "Hello everyone."  take up a lot of space in the post area but don't add anything to the course.  They just make it harder to read.  Also could the off-ilne/post threads be sorted and placed together?  it is kind of hard to follow the thoughts when two or three threads are mixed together.

Iron

I have the Arduino Cookbook by Orielly which I

enjoyed very much and I felt it covered alot of material

Nuts and Volts has a digital version if you are outsider of the shipping range

Iron

jsh   yes,  now is more real

Iron

How do you get Nuts & Volts in India?

Iron

Yes cheap is bad, inexpensive is good.

Iron

for boards try to attend seminars, workshops, ... etc in you area, and most of the time you can get them for free, or in the worst case, 50% off

Iron

logic probes work well in a tight for troublshooting

Nuts & Volts is great for beginners, Circuit Cellar is better for more advanced.  Elektor is in between.

Iron

@slk, cheap isn't always bad, just need to do more research before making a purchase.

Iron

manya: Alright. Thank you. Jon just seemed to be emphasizing that Chinese microcontrollers aren't very good. 

Iron

Thanks Raghu, the simplier the better :)

Iron

i agree with JM Ashcraft and slk... you get what you pay for

 

Iron

try nutsvolts.com for the nuts and volts site

Iron

krhohio, Nuts & Volts magazine will have series of articles on various MCUs, so it is a good resource for beginners.

Iron

@kenstan: Maybe I can help you mentoring

Iron

One advantage of buying development tools from the vendor (e.g. Microchip) is that with the exception of the PicKit 2 or 3, Microchip will replace a broken programmer, ICE or whatever no matter why the tool broke.  This support is worth a lot more than the savings buying a knock-off device.

 

Iron

Nuts& Volt is a magazine

Iron

There is also a lab manual for that workshop and it is a good place to start.

Iron

@Leovargas- I guess use resistor ladder, measure the voltage by adc and process it in mcu, display on LCD.. isnt it the way to do?

Iron

I am going to buy a SMT hot air soldering iron from ebay (china), a lot cheaper than metcal/oki.

Iron

@john.evans I think that I missed the details (on "what is") the Nuts& Volts reference?


 

Iron

A lot of ham radio operators have learned basic pic programming with a tutorial available at - http://www.amqrp.org/elmer160/ - based on the 16F84, but the techniques are still valuable.

Iron

the lecture so far as reformatted me please i need an  experienced  uC programmer as  mentor

Iron

microchip is running a promotion (20% off) on PICKit3 - use the code "MPLABX" upon checkout from the microchipDIRECT site

Iron

or, ...  cheap = bad

Iron

price = quality...usually

@snandu13 and others - TI has what I hope will be a good intro to the MSP430 

http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Getting_Started_with_the_MSP430_LaunchPad_Workshop


Iron

@agraybill, even the "official" ones are made in china, as long as it comes out of the same factory it doesn't matter. The only difference is the price.

Iron

the lecture so far as Reformatted me please i need an experienced Uc programmer as a mentor.

Iron

@raghu: it is a MCU practice, measure up to 60Vdc, 6 digits

Iron

I too use a wall wart with a linear voltage regulator.  Second-hand shops (good will, etc.) are a good source of wall warts for a buck each!

Iron

It should be noted that it can be sometimes tricky to program older PIC chips such as PIC16F84 using pickit2/3 which most circuits on the web and in books are based on. Must use the application provided by the programmer rather than through MPLAB.

Iron

is it a good practice to add power recifying circuits to any project (be prepared for a dirty power)?

 

Iron

Ragu, for a debounce circuit using a schmitt trigger, check out "The CMOS Cookbook" by Lancaster. Good reference for external logic.

So buying knock-offs from China are generally a bad idea, even though they might be cheaper?

Iron

@jon: do you prototype with through-hole parts? When do you go for SMD parts?

Iron

I use a wall wart through an lm317 volt regulator for my prototyping power supply

Iron

Thanks Jon for 5 days of tuting.

Iron

Thanks Guys,

 I also enjoyed this week of bite size presentations

and listening you you both.

 

BG Micro or MPJA has a decent selection of power supplies

Iron

Jon, Breadbords generate lots of nosie, any other way recommand?

Iron

Thank you Mr. Titus. Can't wait for the advance classes.

Iron

I'm just getting into microcontrollers and am learning a lot this week.  Thanks for the presentations!  And the info on some products to start experimentation- Great stuff to know!!  Thanks for everything.

 

Iron

@mdsmdsmd Thanks for posting the current slide numbers!
(I'm still fighting streaming audio with our IT group!!)

Iron

Jon:

with regard to the sw interrupt 2nd type, some AVR chips hardware automatically disable all interrupts

when an interrupt is entered, so the delay executing the entire routine in the interrupt may cause a timing problem.  What other method do u like to use in a case like this??

Iron

Thanks Jon for the lesson. Its good.

 

Iron

Thanks for sharing your valuable experience, Jon

Iron

@Leovargas- why do you want design a dvm? is it as a mcu practice project or are the existing dvm's inferior in any way?

Iron

thanks, Jon. learned a lot this session...

 

Iron

Jon, thank you for another excellent lecture!

Iron

back to my dark age experience. I usually go to my roots and start a fresh design on breadboard if I can. Then troubleshoot/debug the design with lots of room to work.

Iron

some msp430s have an internal temperature control ... requiring a heat sink for something like that would be weird :-)

Iron

Thanks for an interesting and informative week

Iron

Great presentation, thanks!

THis week has been a valuable refresher and learning opportunity.

Iron

MSP430 Microcontroller Basics Amazon.ca John Davies, John H. Davies Books

Iron

Jon, Thanks again for sharing with us your knowledge and experience.

 

Iron

Some chinese products are o.k, http://www.terasic.com.tw/en/, this is for FPGA's

Iron

Again excellent thank you Jon

 

Iron

Jon,

It has been a very informative week. Thanks!

Iron

Thank you very much, Jon! This is super series of presentations!

Iron

I am looking for similar tips  for MSP430 Series

Iron

@luizcosta for Altera FPGAs I can say they are trustworthy.

Nuts& Volts is a good resource for beginners.  Also, lots of beginner projects are documented and linked on youtube, believe it or not.

Iron

Great presentation again, Jon! I am an experienced uC programmer and I still learned a TON!

any good link for logic design in assembly programing

Iron

conterfit products, how often does this occur?

most of the time if you don't by reliable distributors.

Iron

@Jon: Is there any tips'n tricks available for other microcontrollers, like MSP430 family from Texas Instruments or for LPC family from NXP ?

Iron

Jon, is Terasic a trustworthy supplier?

Iron

I know we can view past presentations in the archived area of the Design News web site.  But how might we download the .ppt, the audio stream or both (user selected)?

Iron

Any recommendation to design/build my own DVM?

Iron

conterfit products, how often does this occur?

few good books regarding the PIC

Serial PIC'n : PIC Microcontroller Serial Communications
http://www.amazon.com/Serial-PICn-PIC-Microcontroller-Communications/dp/0965416224

Iron

@Tenacious,

button press interrupt triggers interrupt routine,

check if button is released, if yes perform some action, if not check again

clear interrupt flag

Iron

************* Slide 19 **************

Iron

i always turn WDT off if not critical. less headaches...

 

Iron

yes there are dedicated chips for that. check Maxim

Iron

************* Slide 18 **************

Iron

using watch-dog timers help establishing deterministic characteristics

@timmer: Many controllers have open collector drive capability on some or all pins.  This can be used to ground the one end of the divider with no extra external components.

Iron

i've been bitten by the WDT, good idea to turn off while debugging.

Iron

for hardware debouncing people use smitt trigger switch..is there a suggest about which particular chip people used?

Iron

snandu13 20ms is a standard delay, or use dedicated debounce chips.

Iron

The PIC 18F4550 is neat in that a 4MHz xtal osc with the internal PLL allows you to run code at 48MHz while chip is plugged into a solderless breadboarding socket!

Iron

Oh, good. Glad you got that sorted, at least.

Iron

External crystals pose problem in regard to load capacitance matching !

Iron

good idea. I'll have a slight voltage drop that I can add back in. Would it be better to use a NPN on the low side or PNP on the high side?

Iron

for audio, F5 (refresh) should do the job

Iron

You can, snandu13, but the delay has to be as long as the worst case. Might as well execute some code.

Audio good now. Refresh doesn't help, but log out and in solved the audio prob. Thanks.

 

Iron

************* Slide 17 **************

Iron

manya, the issue is whether it is in the off position only temporarily due to bouncing.

For debounce elemination, can we use a small delay within the loop?

Iron

@timmer116:   use voltage devider.. and a transisitor to connect to ground.. connect it to ground only when you want to measure the Volate.. that way you dont lose the current.

Iron

Check for switch in off position after it has switched on before clearing interrupt.

Iron

************* Slide 16 **************

Iron

Of course, this isn't a good idea if the interrupt itself may need to be interrupted again by a new version of itself.

THasham: try reloading the page. The same thing happened to me, the other day.

Iron

************* Slide 14 **************

Iron

Mostly in the bridge circuitsgermanium diod is used

Iron

Why germanium?  Silicon has higher voltage drop.

Iron

Perhaps don't clear the interrupt flag so soon. :)

Refresh is the best option.

Iron

What would be your recommendation for measuring Battery voltage thru a micro A/D, say a 9-volt battery?  Simply using a voltage divider causes current draw while the micro is shut down.

Iron

use a 3V3 power supply chip !

Iron

Please help..the audio just went silent.

Iron

Diode should be germanium

even worst

Iron

Also, LEDs are much more constant voltage drop than regular diodes.

Iron

************* Slide 14 **************

Iron

True, diodes are not linear but most devices allow power +/- 5%

Iron

Diode should be germanium

Iron

I like yer LED idea Zwilrich

Iron

5Volt regulated supply >>-- three diodes in series -->> 3.3Volt supply

not stable because diodes are not liniar -> Vd depends on Id.  bad idea.

Iron

************* Slide 13 **************

Iron

@danlafleur I just worked with AT89S52 from the 8051 family. It was kind of limited. 

Why not connect unused inputs to ground instead of to 5V through resistor?

Iron

Instead of series diodes you can use an LED.  You then also get an indication of current draw.

Iron

@raghu Elektor, CircuitCellar

Iron

I wish there is an analog electronics class too in CEC..will be a great help with MCUs

Iron

Jon, can that jumper shorting trick activate ifdef debug code?

I think thay most microcontrollers have weak pull-up selectable for the port or each gpio. turn it on or off as you wish.

Iron

************* Slide 12 **************

Iron

5Volt regulated supply >>-- three diodes in series -->> 3.3Volt supply 

Iron

 heatsink ?  ... depends how much power you need, but for sure you will need one.

Iron

The audio is running perfect

Iron

@cnorton: A strong pullup means using small value resistor for pull up whereas a weak pullup means using high value resistor for pulling the signal to Vcc. A strong pullup reduces the RC time constant.

Iron

Have not thought about using a high-bright LED at low current.  Worth looking into. :-)

Iron

A port without an internal pull-up is useful for bit banging an I2C interface

Iron

Weak is large value resistor, strong is a lower value resistor.  Weak/strong indicate the amount of current.

Iron

, you always should use heatsink

Iron

Another solution is to use a 5V zener diode with a resistor in series, but the energy wastage is a lot more.

Iron

do not forget that 7805 is a LINIAR regulator.

Iron

************* Slide 11 **************

Iron

How static sensitive are Pic gpio pins?

Iron

Can you define the difference between "Weak" and "Strong" Pull-up Resisters?

Iron

I found out that a port without an itnernal pull-up can be very useful. I used one to turn a LED into a light sensor.

problem with 7805s or with any other VRs is that they heatup a lot when the input V is high..heatsink bcomes a must. 

Iron

************* Slide 10 **************

Iron

Nice Hardware tips are used. But to find out the times do you use specific codes? Sorry I lost myself

Iron

@luizcost, ppt, is powerpoint, use openoffice or a free viewer from google

Iron

try logging in, that fixed it for me

Iron

for 7805 check first the package.  not all ca deliver full 5A without the proper heatsink (external or on the pcb board) 

Iron

files.ppt = Microsoft Office PowerPoint

Iron

Use google to open the ppt

Iron

can't download and successfully open slides: it comes with *.ppt.download and my computer doesn't open this type of package.

Iron

************* Slide 9 **************

Iron

For charlieplexing have to use tristate I/O pins, selecting high impedance as the 3rd state, I think.

Iron

With a BJT you have to take the VBE drop into consideration (5V - 0,7 V)

 

Iron

how can u get 5a from 7805

Iron

************* Slide 8 **************

Iron

I always thought this was a cleaver idea!

Iron

I thought 78L05 was only rated to 1A ?

Iron

************* Slide 7 **************

Iron

@Mazianlab, is that by using an external FET?

 

Iron

looks like it is elektor.. not elector magazine.. thanks!

Iron

************* Slide 6 **************

Iron

With 78L05 you can make higher surce of current(up to 5A)

Iron

There are also isolation modules that can be used when working with higher voltages

 

Iron

Lots of comments are good

Comments that duplicate what the code says are not

************* Slide 5 **************

Iron

I use a 78L05 - 5V linear regulator to be safe

Iron

also you can use doxygen, it's quite easy to use and you can create documentation in various format (html, pdf, ps etc.

Iron

Test programs are great help to debug.

Iron

@isoptera how much trouble could be avoided if I didn't use variables such as "a, b, c, t, s".

post working code on a personal private blog..thatway we can go look at it anytime.. blogs are free from coffee spills.. once my opamp part is working, i post the code; same for pwm, adc, interrupts.. small bit of code  for each feature.

Iron

if you're taking the trouble to document: document the What? and the Why?. Don't just restate what the code already tells

Iron

For clear code that can be self documenting, I recommend using meaningful names for variables.

Iron

does slide 3 affect programmable variable linear digital power supplies?

Iron

first bullet, best advise...document, document, document

@s.schmiedl thanks... personally, I prefer just to download it. It's faster and easier.

brownout detector has looked like a code problem at times. turn it off if you can.

Iron

refreshed, audio player doesnt show/play

Iron

Microchip's IDE is a download or you can order a CD from them

Iron

ti: after registration you can download an iso image of a dvd

microchip: download, too

Iron

Hi Jon and Alex. I'm ready to go.

Iron

no audio for me..

Iron

I just got a glance on the last slide and this question came to mind: the full version of companies' IDEs come only in CD? Or is there a way to legally download it? 

@raghu .. Elector, Circuit Cellar

Iron

audio IS running. If you don't see it, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger

the audio is running fine

 

Iron

From yesterday brief discussion and with more to come in next cycle.  Please give your thoughts about quality differences between this level of programming and safety level programming/equipment?  What safeguards are there to prevent this type of device (quality) getting used in a larger safety device as a part/piece?  Do you think that this is happening? High level there are regulations, etc, but when you get down to this level...is there a problem?

@danlafleur .. :). Malvino is a great reference..

Iron

Here the Audio starts........

Iron

audio is starting...

Iron

raghu, you've been around for a while! I trained with the Malvino text.

Iron

Is there a popular hobbyists MCU magazine? with few projects each issue?

Iron

I still have a hard copy of the Embedded Handbook but it getting really ratty with use :-)

 

Iron

I recall a company - Sencore - some really good bench tools

Iron

I agree, the Embedded Handbook was a great start to many projects. I think it still exists on some old Microchip CDs.

Iron

I mostly follow Paul Horowitz and Malvino.

Iron

Hi from Chihuahua

 

Iron

I really miss the Embedded Handbook that Microchip used to print in the "old" days - It was a great reference volume and I referred to it often.  Its been probably 6 years or so since the last version was printed.

 

Iron

OK guys, I really do use modern test equipment now. I have to!

Iron

Different logic families require different power/voltage requirements....interfacing, proper temination, sourcing and sinking

Iron

@danlafleur Still, I'm curious to try some more advanced tools. In the company I work, I've already seen those agilent scopes with logic analyzers. 

well, here in Germany :-), I also start with a voltmeter ... because my soldering is not what it should be.

Iron

franchzilla, good to know that someone still understands the basics.

Iron

Jon, appreciate for your time and giving us valuable information.

Iron

@danlafleur Here in brazilian universities, we still debug with voltmeters and scopes. :P

@vidyadhari

There will be no test. Grade is related to your attendance and interaction with the lecturer.

Iron

Will there be a test at the end of the series to qualify for grade?

 

Iron

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

Archived shows (parts 1 thru 4 of Jon's MCU Basics series) are here: http://www.designnews.com/lecture-calendar.asp

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams.

Blogger

Jon, great tip about checking the power supply. I learned digital troubleshooting back when measurements were made with volt meters and scopes, no logic probe or analyzer. Power supply voltage and stability was a big deal when begining to troubleshoot or debug. We also learned about voltage characteristics of wounded inputs and outputs.

Iron

For those fans of analog-circuit guru Jim Willams, his final work, the book "Analog Circuit Design: A Tutorial Guide to Applications and Solutions," is now in print.  The book provides a collection of 41 application notes from Linear Technology Corp. that have stood the test of time and reader interest.  The 932-page volume costs about $62 in hardback from Amazon.  ISBN: 978-0-12-385185-7.  I just got a copy.  Excellent reference. --Jon

Blogger

The audio should start automatically when Alex and I go live by phone in about 45 minutes.  If you still have problems, you might have audio blocked by a company firewall--some companies block streaming audio.  I'm not a browser expert, so perhaps someone who knows about audio has some ideas for best audio streaming settings. I know the audio for the archived sessions works well here with my Mac and Safari browser. --Jon

Blogger

I have a lot of trouble geting the audio to work

Iron

Although labeled "Tricks with PIC: Using the Trusty PIC Microcontroller," many of the tips relate to MCUs in general and to some overall tips about MCU-based projects.  I hope you will join us. --Jon

Blogger

@diego88, you will have to go to each topic and under special Education Materials you will find a link called Today's Slide Deck. That will allow you to download it. It is next to the picture of Jon Titus and his info

Iron

Where can i download all presentations of this

Iron

Good presentations all week Jon

Iron

This session includes 19 Power Point slides, which should leave plenty of time for "live" questions and answers, and activity here on the chat section. --Jon

Blogger


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