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Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Cost reductions
Ann R. Thryft   1/10/2012 12:12:47 PM
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MIROX, those are really good points. And I agree with philipp10, market forces caused by pressure to find more and better alternatives will make improvements in EV batteries, as well as other EV technologies. 


MIROX
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Cost reductions
MIROX   1/6/2012 12:47:02 PM
In the EV world what promoters and battery manufacturers seem to not pay any attention to is the COST PER MILE!

It does not matter how much you bring down the battery cost, if it does not last.

The Li useful life of between 250 and 400 times, which translates to about 18 to 24 months of EV use in real life driving, before the battery deteriorates to a point that range is seriously reduced becomes a big problem few years from now.

California ZEV mandate requires OEM to Warrant the battery for 80,000 to 150,000 miles depending on the "emissions" certification.

Granted Li battery even after 600 cycles may be still "useful" but not to a person whose 100 miles range is now only 40 miles per charge.

I can see big lawsiuts over when the battery needs to be changed for FREE in the consumers vehicle.

And it is not just the cost of battery replacement, or loss of range per charge but the astronomical depreciation of "used" EV that makes Cost of Driving per mile more than a luxury.

 

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Cost reductions
Ann R. Thryft   1/6/2012 12:16:51 PM
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I agree, Chuck, it's well funded R&D that seems to be behind some pretty amazing breakthroughs, at least in materials, for sustainable and alternative energy sources. I'd like to see more of what that report said. Can you post a link to it?


philipp10
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Gold
Re: EV battery material advances
philipp10   1/6/2012 9:31:31 AM
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I too was confused by this article.  The first page was about battery anodes and then jumped to fuel cell materials without an explanation. 

 

As far as this article, the improvements we are and will see in batteries will make EV's a reality, contrary to all the naysayers out there who apparently think the world is a static place.  As oil becomes harder to find, EV's will take over more applications.  They will initially start with short commutes in the city and I believe in 30-50 years, most of us will be driving EV's wether we want to or not.

 

Charles Murray
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Cost reductions
Charles Murray   1/5/2012 8:28:14 PM
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Ultimately, research such as this will be the way to cut battery costs. Economies of scale will only get us so far, according to a report done by an Indiana University Blue Ribbon panel in 2010. The panel said: "Additional battery R&D may achieve even greater cost reductions, perhaps more significant  than the cost reductions expected through economies of scale and 'learning by doing' in the production process."

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: EV battery material advances
Ann R. Thryft   1/5/2012 12:37:11 PM
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I was surprised to see how much work is being done on new/alternative materials for EV batteries, both li-ion and fuel cells. It makes sense, though. If better materials can shrink the size of batteries and/or make them last longer, that will help the whole EV acceptance process.


Dave Palmer
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Platinum
Re: EV battery material advances
Dave Palmer   1/5/2012 7:52:06 AM
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Unless I'm missing something, the first development in Ann's article (the germanium suboxide anodes) relates to Li-ion batteries, but the second development (the atomic layer deposition process) relates to fuel cells - NOT batteries. Batteries and fuel cells are two different things. What am I missing here? What do fuel cells have to do with making Li-ion batteries which last longer?

Beth Stackpole
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Blogger
EV battery material advances
Beth Stackpole   1/5/2012 7:12:09 AM
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Glad to see there's a big R&D effort underway around materials to advance the utility of Li-ion batteries in EVs. There's been so much written about the development and use of bigger battery units as a way to up the power and increase the charge, it's refreshing to read about work done in other sectors that can advance the cause. Clearly things have to change/improve on the battery front in order for EVs to really gain traction among consumers.

 

 

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