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Tim
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Platinum
Good concept
Tim   12/16/2011 6:25:32 AM
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This is a good concept that does have potential.  My main concern would be the power grid being able to drain your EV down without you knowing it.  If you plug it in overnight to allow it to charge for the next day's use, you also allow the grid to pull what remaining energy you had stored which may leave you with a dead vehicle in the morning.  Hopefully, ther are safe guards in place to stop thsi from happening.

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Good concept
Jerry dycus   12/16/2011 8:41:49 AM
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  Yes V2G will greatly help the future grid though saying RE depends on storage isn't correct.

    First only large distant wind farms have the problem and they can have onsite biomass back up.

  Biomass, Solar thermal, geo thermal, hydro, biofuels, tidal/river are all steady or on demand. No?

  PV on homes/buildings in most places generator when power is needed most so is 5-10x's as valuable than steady sources or randomly intermitant ones.  And even there if many, widely spread out means RE will average out quite well.

As the facts show this whole ssue is a red herring made up by big coal and utilities as they know for retail customers RE is cost effect compared to coal in many places and that scares them big time.

 Facts are demand is far more variable that RE which is easily handled now, mostly by spinning reserve, producing more power than needed.   Where V2G saves utilities much cash is not having to run these and let the EV's, home/building battery pack handle the peaks/valleys minute to minute, saving much fuel and generator wear.

No new inverter is needed as EV's already have 50-200kw inverter onboard to control the motor.  Since 1995 AC Propulsion has built these V2G with a battery charger all in one  and Ford put them in E Rangers in the late 90's.  So not a new tech.

As for a drained battery, you'll put in a time where the battery is fully charged and can be changed by cellphone.  The Utilities will only use 10-20% of a system, not fully discharge them.  And since night is the low load, all EV's and home/building systems would be fully charged by morning.

How they will be used is max power for 1-5 minutes to handle a peak, them charged back up to fill a demnand valley, etc.

This can happen many times/day. As for wearing out the battery, most new good  lithium  ones claim 10k+ full cycles making it moot if they do.  Likely they will die from age problems before cycle death.

Finally the EV's pollute more because  they run from coal is false myth planted by coal supporters.  The EPA studied this yrs ago when plants were far dirtier and even then EV's charged from coal because of EV's eff, polluted less than cars.  Coal is now far cleaner though still deadly, has dropped 20% in the last few yrs and more coal  plants shutting or canceled , every day thankfully.  And as of last night when the budget bill passed without cutting new pollution regs, many more will be shut or changed to NG.

Personally because I live in an old oak forest I can't do solar or wind so I buy RE inexpensively.  Since I only use $23-45/month for all home, heating, AC, transport/EV charging  needs, it's not bad.  The cheapest energy is that which you don't use.

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Good concept
Ann R. Thryft   12/16/2011 12:39:33 PM
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Jerry, can you be a little more explicit about what you mean by "Personally because I live in an old oak forest I can't do solar or wind so I buy RE inexpensively." I live in a redwood forest where solar is not possible--the trees are too dense and too tall. I'm looking into wind, but we don't really have that much here, either, and foir various reasons I can't harness the creek's energy. What kinds of RE/AE do you use? And why are your electrical expenses so low? 


Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Good concept
Jerry dycus   12/16/2011 7:39:52 PM
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              I get no solar, just lots of shade which saves me much money on A/C, the big cost here in Fla.  The trees are so tall and we have extremely bad lightning here with windgens getting hit 1-2x's a yr.

            So I  pay extra, $5/200kwhr,  from my utility who buys it from producers, a mix of biomass and solar in my area.

             I use little power because I use just CFL's, laptop, flat TV, have a hot water switch and only turn it on when needed. I run temps at 60f in cold and 80f in summer with heated seat covers, blankets or a fan.  Plus my place is only 250sq'.  Also my EV's and workshop.  3.5-13kwhrs/day.

           And $10.50 of the bill is for billing, etc. I pay around $.13/kwhr.

           If you have more heating needs a very small water cooled 4-8hp diesel run at 1800 or better 1200rpm on used veg oil collected from fast food joints supplies both heat and electric needs.  Not sure why most up north doesn't do this as electric savings and sales can pay for even FF, especially NG.  

           What is really needed is a heat engine based on A/C-rankine tech that can be powered by burning any biomass or put into most furnances to make extra electricity.  

        Since you live on the west coast you certainly can buy RE from your utility is the easy way.

          Lots of power in water that runs 2mph or faster or can have some head height of more than a few feet.   If you can do that you'd be in high cotton . 

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Good concept
Ann R. Thryft   12/28/2011 12:58:34 PM
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Jerry, thanks for those details. My square footage is about 5 times yours, so that's the big difference right there. I wish I owned the creek, that would make a great source of free power. We don't need AC here, but we do need heating in the winter. Your description of the veg oil-powered generator sounds intriguing. There are several local groups near me trying to implement that technology with distribution systems. But I have a big problem with the noise a generator makes, out here in the quiet woods. They need to be completely redesigned to address that issue.


Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Good concept
Charles Murray   12/16/2011 5:11:10 PM
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Tim: I agree this is a concern. A similar concern would be a sudden, unexpected need for the car. Even if you leave enough charge to go a short distance, some EV batteries take eight hours to recharge at 240V.

TJ McDermott
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Blogger
Re: Good concept
TJ McDermott   12/19/2011 2:23:06 PM
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Charles is correct.  In addition to all the hurdles for this concept, we'd also need rapid chargers developed.  Or easily swapped batteries, leave one in the charger and take one in the car.

Alexander Wolfe
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Blogger
Revive IVHS
Alexander Wolfe   12/19/2011 6:57:26 PM
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I know I sound like a broken record, but all these one-off improvements to alt.energy vehicles -- like autonomous driving and this V2G energy sharing -- mean nothing in isolation. Also, they won't be implementable. What we need is a revivable of the IVHS -- Intellgent Vehicle Highway System -- concept. It was nascent 20 years ago, ahead of its time technologically. Now that we have the technology, there's no will, interest, nor money to fund the infrastructure that would support something like V2G as well as make driving safer for everyone.

jimwilliams57
User Rank
Silver
Re: Good concept
jimwilliams57   12/19/2011 9:41:27 AM
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I'm no battery expert, but as I understand it most rechargables seem to have a limited number of discharge/charge cycles before they begin to degrade.  If this is true, why would I want to pay so much for an EV and then give away my battery life to the grid?

Besides, I want my vehicle ready at any time in case I need to use it.  After the expected charge time, I want a full charge no matter when I choose to use the EV.

3drob
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Good concept
3drob   12/19/2011 10:19:36 AM
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Sorry if I'm too slow to get this, but how could this possibly be a solution to anything?  EV's are in use (i.e. not tethered to the power co) during peak demand (daytime), and charged during lower use periods (night time).  The only possible application would be if businesses/power co. provided smart charging stations (but even that's debatable since the typical charging time is about a work day, so no possibility of a charge/discharge/charge in time to go home or to lunch). 

Sorry pious green worker; you can't leave at quiting time today.  You'll have to wait a few extra hours today while your car charges back up.

jimwilliams57
User Rank
Silver
Re: Good concept
jimwilliams57   12/19/2011 10:24:13 AM
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3drob, I agree whole heartedly.  If the power company needs battery backup, then let them buy the batteries.

Geoff Thomas
User Rank
Iron
Re: Good concept
Geoff Thomas   12/20/2011 2:40:45 AM
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The importance of EV's putting their extra energy into the grid is due to a single important fact, - the grid is drained dry at peak times, - morning when all are preparing to to work and Mainly, evening when everyone comes home, family is together, - cook dinner, watch TV, do chores, use computer, shower, open fridge etc, and power stations are now only built to service those peak times, they can not get Return On Investment from working only 3-4 hours per day, - eventually that huge cost will be passed on to the consumer, and those with storage, like is in an EV,will be motivated to sell the electricity they took on board whilst they were at work, - at non peak time, and then they will re-charge after peak time, - a win for the power companies, - they don't have to build these non profit generators, and a win for the car owner, - they can earn some money towards their next battery bank.

As is normal in our society, economics of demand and supply will determine the extent of this phenomenon, but certainly some synergies could line up, - it would be most power generation authorities' dream to have the customers provide the battery banks for Peak time. Cheers, Geoff Thomas

BobGroh
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Platinum
EVs as a power source? Dubious IMHO
BobGroh   12/20/2011 11:10:20 AM
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I have not read extensively into this subject but my first, second and third thoughts are that this sound's like an academic's pipe dream. I have a whole list of 'this doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense' so here goes.

But I will start off with the one plus: EVs are a possible energy source to balance out the sometimes unpredicatable delivery of renewable energy (e.g. solar and wind).

But having said that here is what I see as the other side of the coin.

#1: EVs are not a good source of energy per se. 

#2: The availability of the EV as a energy 'dump' don't match well (time wise) with one of the major sources of renewable energy (i.e. solar).

#3: As several writers have pointed out, there are substantial obstacles and costs to connecting EVs to the electrical grid.

#4: EVs as a resource for storing energy - total quantity (i.e. KWhr) unpredictable (you never know how many are going to be connected up) and probably small in relative terms to the need. 

#5: And did I mention the cost per KWhr.

#6:  And I doubt the utilities will like the idea of relying on something they have no control over

OK, enough said. Bottom line: interesting to think about and discuss but I doubt it makes a lot of sense.  IMHO.

Ralphy Boy
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Platinum
Re: Good concept
Ralphy Boy   12/21/2011 3:43:09 PM
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"As is normal in our society, economics of demand and supply will determine the extent of this phenomenon, but certainly some synergies could line up, - it would be most power generation authorities' dream to have the customers provide the battery banks for Peak time."

Sorry, but the gov will do what it is doing with the Volt and tried to do with Solyndra... Pick winners no matter the cost to tax payers or the validity of the idea. The only way this will happen is if the gov mandates it... much like the CAFE standards.

You yourself state that...

"The importance of EV's putting their extra energy into the grid is due to a single important fact, - the grid is drained dry at peak times, - morning when all are preparing to to work and Mainly, evening when everyone comes home, family is together, - cook dinner, watch TV, do chores"

Gee... at those times I'm either getting ready to use my car (EV) and need it to stay charged-up till I drive it to work... or I'm just getting home and it is in need of charging. I'll have no excess power at those times.

Admittedly, how much good or bad something like this would do is very hard to calculate.

And btw... let's not add $500 more to all the money that the gov is spending to subsidize the Volt... Please. Besides, hybrids like the Volt are the only ones that could/should be expected to do this uploading to the grid... unless we want to have EV's out of power when most needed; in an emergency.

I like the idea of smart charging times... but even that only goes so far because of the potential for an emergency at say... mid-night.

Roy Salkus
User Rank
Iron
Re: Good concept
Roy Salkus   1/3/2012 11:47:27 AM
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Maybe not to power the Grid, but wouldn't it be great

to be able to power critcal loads (heat & light) at home

when the power goes off, and everything grinds to a halt.

Tim
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Good concept
Tim   1/3/2012 7:41:02 PM
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It would be great to use your car as an emergency back up generator

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Good concept
Charles Murray   1/5/2012 10:19:35 PM
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Ozark Sage
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Silver
WHY we MUST GO FOWARD; NOT BACKWARD
Ozark Sage   1/19/2012 4:18:09 PM
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First the grid system itself is out dated and must be upgraded.  It costs too much to matain and build, will not hold up in bad in iceing, floods, hurricanes, fires, or wars.  In fact why does it even exist?  Well thats how Mr. Westinghouse designed the first overland distribution out of Niagra Falls to distribut Mr. N. Tessla's multi-phase power.  Go see it, it is still working. 

Now, jumping to 2012, we are still using cross country distribution (thank God without Edison's and Wall Streets perfered DC method designs) but, really havent moved forward.  Why?  We have stand-alone generation capability and know how to use it, or do we?  Or are we reluctant to explore the true value of new technology fearing the selfish control methods applied by the J. P. Morgan's of the world?  I think so and here is why.

We don't have a NEED prerequisit such as on a ship, nor do we understand the alternates available to us.  Thoes such as ZERO, COLD, FREE, FUSION or E-Cat technologies.  And, why don't we undestand or use such technologies?  Technologies that havebeen known and hidden away from the public for at least a century and are here NOW.  These eneryg systems are safe, make NO polution, are very buildable, genrate limitless power, are afordable and provide the keys to safe tranmutation of spent fision fuel.   

It is my contention that the R&D. Engineering, Scientific and ALL OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES should demand, world wide, patent restructuring and government coperation to make this posible!  If this happens we may truly look forward to a renaissance of new discovery and invention.   





   

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Good concept
Charles Murray   1/4/2012 11:05:16 PM
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Actually, Roy, there are trucks on the market that already let owners plug their appliances in, although not heat and lights, as far as I know.

bellaire
User Rank
Bronze
evs dumping to grid
bellaire   12/19/2011 9:12:57 AM
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If you would like power shedding then how about taking gas powered micro generators one stage further and allow them to be remotely started by the power generating companies.

Micro power generators are already available as a replacement for central heating boilers. The power companies can then pay you a premium for the power. In this way they can keep base power running without the need for power stations running just to service peak power.

ironhorse
User Rank
Iron
power to the people, if you will
ironhorse   12/19/2011 10:27:47 AM
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Who is to own the energy stored in the EV?

Who is to own the service of providing the energy storage?

Who is to own the energy charge and discharge service at the single EV level?

The EV owner? The Utility? The State?

If this ownership is at the individual EV ownership level, I visualize a future "trash" home with a collection of old EV clunkers up on blocks connected to the grid generating a revenue trickle ... If individuals own the energy and services in their EVs, then power to the people, if you will.

 

WhEEngineer
User Rank
Gold
Re: power to the people, if you will
WhEEngineer   12/19/2011 10:38:17 AM
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(this isn't directed at ironhorse, I don't see where I can make a comment otherwise)  I'd like to see special electrical metering of EV's, so they could pay more or less depending on the time of day they are being charged, and so they could be assessed a road use tax which isn't being charged for EV now, everyone else pays it through gas taxes.  The rate of EV vehicles projected is very exponential on the chart, in this economy WHO is going to be buying these overpriced feel good vehicles (hint hint? the 1%), surely not people in Africa or the middle east as the chart implies.  Who would be crazy enough to buy a used one?  Their value goes to zero as the batteries die off.  Plus, they are causing fires.  They are overpriced glorified government subsidised golf carts.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
EVs power back to the grid concerns.
William K.   12/19/2011 10:53:24 AM
The very forst comment from Tim matches my concern. The only time that I wouod connect my vehicle "to the grid" is when I need a charge. What happens if the grid discharges my car and I suddenly have to drive someplace, like a hospital emergency center, or even just to the store because I need something? What then?

The other fact is that most folks will be away from home during the highest demand parts of the day. If your car is recharging at work, do you really want to return your charge to the grid in the late afternoon? Besides that, how is "the grid" going to recognize who it got the power from if you are away from home?

One more question is about the relative efficiency of taking power back from hundreds of non-optimized sources instead of from a system designed for that purpose only?

Does Big Brother really know when I don't need to have my vehicle charged? Is Big Brother able to act intelligently for my benefit? I DON'T THINK SO!

ironhorse
User Rank
Iron
Re: EVs power back to the grid concerns.
ironhorse   12/19/2011 11:20:25 AM

If you are connected to the grid at work or other business, then the owner of the connection service (the business or their contractor) should charge the utility for the V2G service and contract payout or charging discounts with the EV owner for the battery capacity it provides.

If private property is a perpetuated concept, then removal or even storage of power without owner's permission would be theft or even trespass.  Then the EV owner should be able to configure the services the EV provides -- with Singularity, the EV charging system could be able to (as the owner's agent) autonegotiate how much energy services to sell and at what rate (At the right price, you might be willing to flatten your batteries and stay late at the office).   And as Agents, could the County's emergency services "Deputize" your EV?

HBJimmy
User Rank
Iron
Progress
HBJimmy   12/19/2011 12:33:03 PM
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It's a little hard to see the positives as a desk jockey.

Easier to imagine this boon to society, if you imagine that your commute might take you past the edge of the grid, where you add a little power to the 'non-grid' before returning home.  If, for instance, you were a developer, pressing the grid into the nearby forest, jungle or plain.  So little of that left in America, again it's hard to see the huge benefits to be had.  Notice the graph is pushing Pacific Asia, etc, for volume.  Of course - if you find yourself developing in other lands, where such expansion may be met with an unknowing welcome, well then sure.

But most people who would choose an EV would not take such a job.  At least they wouldn't have 20 years ago.  These days, there's all kinds of new ideas on the horizon.  Imagine living in an Asian village and never having a car - or a job!  And then you get a chance to work for these guys - who rent you an EV!  You get to rent a car at a fraction of the cost of buying one.  And because you have a new job, you can pay for that rental.  It's a major win-win-win.

Anyway, that's just one scenario where a mobile grid really pays off.  Otherwise, you could just have the battery that would have been powering your EV sitting right next to your electrical outlet, helping to balance the load.  Not a lot of incentive for that, unless you got paid for your service (i.e. reducing the cost of power to your home by $.001/kWhr or something).

diskguy
User Rank
Silver
EV Second Hand Batteries
diskguy   12/19/2011 2:24:46 PM
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When the EV battery has reduced it's capacity by 20 to 30 percent, these batteries would be useful for electrical energy storage as a standalone battery separate from the vehicle. The value of a used battery would offset the cost of a new replacement battery in the EV and provide a means for providing power to the grid.

As an EV owner, I would be reluctant to supply electricity to the grid not knowing what the battery cost will be, but having a backup capability when there is no grid power available would be worth the cost of a standby generator. 

So why should EVs be expected to provide the grid storage that renewable energy needs? Should not this be part of the renewable energy system and be reflected in the renewable energy cost?

person12345
User Rank
Iron
Less Than Zero
person12345   12/19/2011 2:40:33 PM
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I don't know much about power transmission efficiency, but I know it doesn't happen at no cost.  In addition to the many valid and thoughtful comments posted, pushing power from a charged EV battery back to the grid is wasteful.  The energy is already stored where it needs to be.   

If efficeiencies were 95% in both directions, we'd be using ~10% of the original source output to do nothing but move electrons around the grid and back to the EV.  Turning something into nothing doesn't seem too "green".

 

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
EVs returning power to the grid???
William K.   12/19/2011 4:14:53 PM
How about some serious effort put toward developing something like the recently announced "polystyrene film" capacitor, an order of magnitude better than the current double-layer supercaps. The HUGE advantage of most capacitors is that they don't lose capacity over their lifetime, since there is no chemical reaction. So now the utility can do load shifting with the large capacitor banks, and as they discharge the utility can shift them into a series arrangement so that the inverters don't need to handle the wide input voltage range. 

An additional advantage is that the energy storage system could be located closer to the load centers because of being much safer.

The other big advantage of most capacitor technologies is that the materials are much less toxic. That cuts costs a great deal, since there would be no "hazmat" issues, and the materials are probably easier to recycle.

Sawmill Engineer
User Rank
Iron
This is an opportunity, not a negative!!
Sawmill Engineer   12/20/2011 4:28:57 PM
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The idea of absorbing power at times of low utilization, lower cost power and putting it back to the grid during high demand,  higher cost times is a good one.  It really is a business idea that is independent of EV's--it's just that it comes to the forefront now that EV's are a reality, with their localized masses of battery power.  It has the potential to make every EV owner a small business without any effort on their part.

The issue may take a bit of buy-in by the power utilities, especially here in Canada, to make the business landscape more amenable to this kind of grid "micro support".  But supposing the business model was there, allowing spot purchasing of micropower when a grid needed the boost.

So, here's the scenario:  A grid operator sees a need for shot notice power coming up.  They send out an automated request on the internet for power.  Cars that are plugged in and (owner enabled) to feed power back to the grid respond.  The grid chooses 1000, 10,000, 50,000 responders to feed power.  During the event, some of the resonders may drop off because the car is required.  No big deal--the grid either drops the supplier and requests another or lives without that particular micro supply. After the event, the grid tells the responders to quit feeding power.  Now, here's the nice part: at the end of the month, there is an automatic deposit of money into the microsuppliers bank account or a credit to their power bill.

The idea of sending out a request for power to available suppliers will take some designing.   This would presumably allow an EV owner to set up parameters in their car to allow supporting the grid only at certain times, telling the car to hold back reserve in case of emergency, and be ready to have capacity to get to work (or make it home) at a certain time of day.

Taking this thinking a little further, the microsupply does not have to be mobile, ie an EV.  It could be an older EV battery bank that doesn't hold enough for a car but can be set in the garage as a little money generator.  Small businesses might be set up to do this very thing, maybe with less costly battery technologies and in larger quantities.

The dynamics of this kind of business that helps a utility is the key.  Utilities hate relying on anyone else for support to keep their grid up so they will likely be the ones doing the pushback.  However, as the grid power moves to more solar and wind generation that is not "firm power" (ie, available 24/7) then other support methods are necessary to fill in the holes in the power availablity.  It might take a bit of government push to kick off this idea of microsupply.

Jon.

 

Ralphy Boy
User Rank
Platinum
Re: This is an opportunity, not a negative!!
Ralphy Boy   12/22/2011 12:32:00 AM
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"Taking this thinking a little further, the microsupply does not have to be mobile, ie an EV.  It could be an older EV battery bank that doesn't hold enough for a car but can be set in the garage as a little money generator.  Small businesses might be set up to do this very thing, maybe with less costly battery technologies and in larger quantities."


Yes I'm going to ask... Where does this setup get the energy in the first place? If it comes from the grid the only way this idea will make money is if the power company allows the battery owner to set the system to buy (charge) only when the price is at it's daily low... and then sell back the same electrons when the daily peak need drives the price up... Possible? I guess. But profitable? Not after taxes and insurance... ; ) 

naperlou
User Rank
Blogger
Re: This is an opportunity, not a negative!!
naperlou   12/31/2011 6:12:58 PM
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Frankly it could go either  way.  I tend to Sawmill Engineer is on the right track.  The utility operator gets paid for providing power, including all of the infrastructure.  There is a guarnteed profit so that private investors will be encouraged to invest.  At present, the utility business is deregulated and no longer integrated.  You pay the distribution company, but the electrons may not come from the traditional generation resource.  The service is not just the electrons, it is the reliable delivery of same. 

This also makes sense given the trend in the utility business to do load balancing through storage rather than generation.  EV's are just another storage mechanism in the network. 

Also, since the utulity is able to avoid cost with extra generation at times of need with this type of scheme, they are happy to write that check.  They were going to anyway.

robatnorcross
User Rank
Gold
I dont even know where to start...
robatnorcross   12/22/2011 4:05:32 PM
 

But I will anyway. As someone (formerly) in the fuel cell "business?" I can tell you that if you fall for this I have a fuel cell to sell you. Judging from the comments you should be able to tell that this is a very bad idea for the following (a few) reasons:

1- The power company is in the business of SELLING electrons not trading you back and forth for them. They will make sure that THEY make money and not you.

2- As soon as the govt. gets wind of this they will tax it.

3- YOU will be responsible for recycling the batteries NOT the utility company.

4- If you put a million vehicles on the grid there's not enough hours in the day that are not peak load to distribute out the demand for charging.

5- By the time you take 1kW-hr and subtract the transmission losses (lets say 10%) to your house and the losses in the charging system (lets say another 20% {i'm being generous})and the losses in the grid tied inverter (another 10%) your praobably left with about 50% of the electrons that the utility sent to you in the first place. So if you're buying electricity at 10 cents/kW-hr your sending 5 cents of electricity back to them. The utilities generate at about 3 cents. Why on a large scale are they going to pay you more unless they get the rest of the money somewhere else.

If the kind old power company is mandated by the govt to do this they'll just do what the banks did with credit cards. They will find out some other way to get the money.

Power companys dont care how much the electrons cost because they are allowed by the public service commissions to make a certain percent profit over their costs.

Thank you for your time.

tedbeau
User Rank
Silver
Re: I dont even know where to start...
tedbeau   12/23/2011 12:52:41 PM
Boy did you get that right. This has to be the stupidest thing I have heard of in a while.

Of course that means that the government will give someone millions of dollars to develop a system!

I can just imagine, I get home from work on Thursday, having driven my overpriced EV back and forth to work all week. I decide that since I havn't charged it since Sunday, and I have an impportant meeting first thing Friday morning I better charge the car. I plug in the car, eat dinner and go to bed. The sun sets, and the wind dies down. The grid now needs power so it drains my battery down to 30%. Since I have to get to work early Friday to get ready for this important meeting I leave work 1/2 an hour before sunup. Half way to work I notice that the charge indicator read 1%. The car than dies. I have to call a wrecker and a taxi. I am late for the meeting and get fired!

Don't these idiots realize that probably 75% of the people in the US would be charging their cars at night when solar in unavailable!

These guys should look at getting a sister grant to see if they can add a wind turbine to the car and charge it with wind while it drives! It makes as much sense!

 

 

 

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: I dont even know where to start...
Rob Spiegel   12/23/2011 2:33:44 PM
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Hey, I like the idea of the wind turbine on the car, Tedbeau. You could also attach a solar panel. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the grid. Actually, though, employers could have chargers at work so employees could charge during work hours. Ah, who knows. This may take some time to work out.


Jack Rupert, PE
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Re: I dont even know where to start...
Jack Rupert, PE   12/26/2011 2:00:29 PM
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When I first started reading this artlcle, I was thinking that it "might" be a possibility for hybrids, such as a case where you have excess capity that was generated by gas-powered driving and so you would sell your "generated" energy to those that might need it.  As it stands, it looks like a losing proposition for the run-of-the-mill EV owner.  In addition, I wonder what type of stress the additional charge/discharge cycles are going to have on the life of the battery.  Even if you are selling the power back to the utility, will the spread be enough to cover your added costs?



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