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Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Really? This gets Published?
Rob Spiegel   12/12/2011 10:50:43 AM
NO RATINGS
 

Hmmm, David,

That's all the more reason a quick check of the bike before riding would not turn up anything alarming. I can't imagine how you could suspect trouble given multiple screws. Tricky problem.

 

David12345
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Nice catch
David12345   12/12/2011 9:04:36 AM
NO RATINGS
And the ilk of . . . what are you? 

Are YOU a biker today (when you have your bike is out of the garage all tighened-up with fresh super thread-locker)?

And are YOU a mechanical engineer?

I would like to know more about you; so that, I can hire the guy that never made a mistake, and "knows it all" about what constitutes good design.  L.O.L.

twinpeaks
User Rank
Iron
Re: Nice catch
twinpeaks   12/11/2011 5:03:17 AM
NO RATINGS
"That's why bikes used to use chains." (?) LOL! I fail to see what a "chain" has to do with that screw coming loose or how it could have prevented it. I'm loving this thread and the unintentional humor. It really shows the ilk of this new breed of riders today. 

twinpeaks
User Rank
Iron
Re: Lawyered by Monkeys
twinpeaks   12/9/2011 6:18:26 PM
NO RATINGS
Really? This "tale" of biker bars and Harley lawyers has been circulating since before most of you were born. They only litigate when someone uses the name HD or the bar and shield logo in thier name or on their main sign out front - and rightly so, otherwise "Harley" bars are great for their business. This internet is nothing more than a glorified Inquirer.

 

twinpeaks
User Rank
Iron
Re: Really? This gets Published?
twinpeaks   12/9/2011 6:10:52 PM
NO RATINGS
Rob - 2 screws, thank you, and no screw or bolt is insignificant.

 

David, it would seem you're "engineering background" was not mechanical? 

 

David12345
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Really? This gets Published?
David12345   12/9/2011 4:26:19 PM
NO RATINGS
For clarification, there are two screws, but the front screw secures a rubber bushing that an open ended slot on the guard slides onto.

It only took the one back screw vibrating-out for the guard to drop-off.

The design is not terrible, but it shouldn't stop there.  It is too easy to create a secondary hardware lock on a critical fastener as in this design. 

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Really? This gets Published?
Rob Spiegel   12/9/2011 4:05:10 PM
NO RATINGS
Seems to me this is the kind of malfunction that can oly be seen in hindsight. I'm not sure you can second-guess everything. When the belt guard falls off, you notice, there is only one screw. Not something you would go looking for.

David12345
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Really? This gets Published?
David12345   12/9/2011 11:42:21 AM
NO RATINGS
Well, I'm the "rider". Arguably an idiot.  Arguably, this is not the only problem here.

I sometimes do my own oil changes and install accessories; however, you're right, lately I usually pay a professional mechanic to complete most of my bike maintenance. Is that incompetant? I don't think so.  I am a professional engineer, have hot-roded bikes and cars since the mid-1970's. I have built a V8 conversion to a hot-rodded Corvair in the 1970's from the ground up. Was this loose guard partially my error? Absolutely. Have YOU ever made an error? I don't know you, but I presume so.

I had done a visual and hands on inspection several days before and again that day. (Remember I was concerned about the rattle too.)  Do you tear down your bike and retorque it daily?  Not if it's a daily rider, instead of in racing.

Obviously, I missed the "root cause" problem.  I have 20-20 hindsight too.  It is embarrassing that A) I am a contributing factor to the problem of the belt guard falling down and getting jammed between the belt and pulley.

However, I believe B) the mechanic that performed my state vehicle inspection two weeks earlier was a contributing factor, and C) the original design is flawed to have no redundancy to mitigate this risk. Critical fasteners should have redundant locks or clips when possible. 

Is that the only maintenance since the V-Rod was built 6 years ago? Absolutely not.  This bike has over 19,000 miles and has been ridden from PA to NM and back. My Dresser has over 49,000 miles since 1999.  They both get regular service.  The soft Z-rated V-rod tires wear-out in around every 5,000 miles, so those wheels come off-and-on AT LEAST that often.

This WAS a maintenance issue that was more critical BECAUSE of a higher-risk design.  This can easily be argued as a design FLAW; even though, it is subtle. As engineers and designers, we should be responsible to conduct DFMEA analysis and mitigate high-risk areas when practical. In my opinion, this focus is the real value of this discussion in Design News.  I don't like about this column being called "Designed by Monkeys", after all I am also an engineer trying to make good design choices which are sometimes a trade-off.

I have sent Harley Davidson a letter documenting this specific concern.  I am not trying to disrespect Harley Davidson, sue them, or otherwise injure them.  However as actuarial studies will statistically support over time, time high-risk areas will fail and lead to fatalities if not addressed.  As a reputable company, I trust that they will address this issue when the best solution is defined. 

Stuart21
User Rank
Silver
Lawyered by Monkeys
Stuart21   12/9/2011 7:35:55 AM
NO RATINGS
Whatever you do don't use the name Harley Davidson!

Harley own it and you are not even allowed to think it!

Used to be a 'Harley Bar' near here. Place was a temple to Harley Davidson! Harley stuff, bikes posters etc, everywhere. 'n hawg riders, of course.

Long comes letter from Harley lawyers - place promptly closes down, now no more. It was suggested that they change their name to 'Gold Wing Bar'.

I heard that City Council renamed the road outside Harley Davidson factory 'Harley Davidson Road' - long comes a letter from Harleys sh.t for brains lawyers, ordering council to change the name back!

Not only made by Monkeys, but lawyered by them too!

twinpeaks
User Rank
Iron
Re: vrod's lower belt guard issue
twinpeaks   12/9/2011 5:28:12 AM
NO RATINGS
 

Case in point right here. Elusive ahd done 100,000 miles and never did a single bolt check. Holy Crap

Then again might prove this is a non-issue.

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