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jcassellia
User Rank
Iron
Re: Designing Down
jcassellia   12/19/2011 3:47:50 PM
NO RATINGS
My washer faied after 4 years. After taking the washer apart, I found that the spider was not only cracked but was severly corroded (which is why it cracked). The spider is made from cast aluminum and is rivited to the stainless steel tub. My guess is, the spider cracked due to the loss of material from galvanic corrosion. Bad material choice from the designer.

 

FinnickyFinn
User Rank
Silver
Matter of quality
FinnickyFinn   12/19/2011 3:26:05 PM
When I grew up all we ever had was front loaders. The American style top loaders with the upright tub were absolutely unknown. The old hand cranked washers operated like that and they as well as their current incarnations have a major design flaw: in order to force the clothes through the water some mechanical device has to move the clothes, be it a big paddle or the modern agitator. That wears out the clothes much quicker, is horribly inefficient, and uses a lot of water to work somewhat OK.

The front loaders do all the work through gravity and wash better with less water. There is a compromise, having a top loader with a horizontally spinning tub. My grandmother prefered that design and her washer lasted over twenty years.

In the end it is a matter of quality. In regards to design, the upright tub top loaders just don't wash right. We got one as a gift and were able to leave it behind for a fair price when we left the rental. We bought an Armana front loader, which is a relabeled Samsung. That thing weighs a ton, but it works great and without issues for years now.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Front load washers
William K.   12/7/2011 11:51:14 PM
Old Curmudgeon has described one of the best washer-dryer sets to ever be made, the Westinghouse twins. They would indeed last a very long time, and itis true that much of the time they were replaced because of appearance issues. 

IT would be quite interesting to see how they would sell if somebody started making a similar machine with the same robust mechanism today. They would need to modernize the controls, and would definitely have to improve the cabinet life. But they might be the very best again.

What would you pay for a 20 year life washer-dryer set?

TJ McDermott
User Rank
Blogger
Re: FRont load washers Vs top loaders
TJ McDermott   12/7/2011 4:36:16 PM
A single fast closure of the valve is not the problem.  The temperature controller seems to want to pulse the hot water valve at about 4 hertz.  WHY?  Slowing down the heating pulse demands would go a long way.


I'm not getting rid of the washer, so I'm headed out right now to get a $15 fix for the water hammer.

OLD_CURMUDGEON
User Rank
Platinum
TOP LOADER vs FRONT LOADER....
OLD_CURMUDGEON   12/7/2011 8:30:30 AM
NO RATINGS
In the early to mid 1950s, WESTINGHOUSE marketed a "front" loader style clothes washer.  I know because we had one.  The tub was set on an angle of approx. 30º above the horizontal.  Of course the door had a positive latch, and a large rubber grommet seal around the periphery.  The door also featured a glass panel so one could observe the washing action, AND, it included a rudimentary scale, so the user could weigh the clothes going into the tub.

The outside sheetmetal cabinet rusted away BEFORE the machine failed.  Due to the forward-looking design of the house. the washer was located in an outside "utility" room adjacent to the kitchen door access.  Although it was heated for the winter months, it also was quite humid during the summer season.  Besides the washer, there was an upright freezer, a clothes dryer & the well pump mechanics. all of which contributed to the humid conditions.

This WESTINGHOUSE washer lasted through many years of family & frequent house guests.  I was in service for the better part of 15 years w/ virtually NO problems or failures to function.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Designing Down
Charles Murray   12/6/2011 11:12:19 PM
This sounds like one of those products where the parts work fine but the assembly stinks. It's been said that the difference between high-reliability cars from Toyota and Honda, and low-reliability cars from other automakers, is the system, not the parts. North American automakers are notorious for a philosophy of "five perfect parts makes a perfect system." Whereas, Japanese automakers are known for using less-than-perfect components but creating more reliable systems.

RobLewis
User Rank
Gold
Designing Down
RobLewis   12/5/2011 1:45:17 PM
NO RATINGS
After a nearly trouble-free 19 years, our Kenmore top-loader wore out the ratcheting mechanism that allows the top part of the agitator to turn in only one direction. I went to Sears online parts site, and noticed that the part I needed had been replaced by an "equivalent".

I received the new part, and it works fine for now, but it seems much flimsier than the original: thinner plastic and overall less rugged.

Kudos to Sears for having parts available for a 19 year-old machine, but onions to them for scrimping on the quality. How much does the new design save them? A couple of pennies?

btlbcc
User Rank
Gold
Front-loading washers
btlbcc   12/4/2011 7:19:18 PM
While all the comments in favor of (and opposed to) FL washers are probably true - and I'll add that a friend - and also his son - both had Maytag Neptune washers which had problems - in each case, the electronic control circuit board failed. A thryristor was rated marginally - 200V - probably to save a few cents, and failed, more than likely due to line surges or inductive kickback during operation.  We replaced the thyristors with some 600 volt units that I had in my lab, and to my knowledge, the machines have been working since.

But the basic design challenge with a FL machine is the cantilever bearing for the drum.  Not only is that part subject to fairly high stresses, but the support structure (I assume that's the "spider" that was referred to) is subject to similar stresses, which can (did) lead to cracking.  One thing for sure: I wouldn't want to have the drum come totally loose inside there under full spin cycle!

Alexander Wolfe
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Anecdotal account of reliability
Alexander Wolfe   12/4/2011 6:26:22 PM
The Asko story is interesting, but I would submit that quality in terms of long life and the design-for-repairability that can support long life simply isn't factored in the design equation anymore. The old phrase "new user servicable parts inside," which us engineers used to ignore in the vacuum tube days, now really is true. What the heck are you going to fix if your flat-panel TV goes bad? Nothing, because it's all one giant bump soldered mass. You either get a warranty replacement if it's new, or throw it out if it's old. The relatively low buy in cost supports this model. Washers and refrigerators aren't quite there yet, but they're definitely headed in that direction. Betting one year (day) soon, replacement bearings just won't be available.

rdrod
User Rank
Iron
Modern Appliances
rdrod   12/3/2011 11:43:51 PM
Had an upright freezer fail after eleven years recently. The freezer it replaced is still working after more than forty years. The repairman said repairing the freezer would cost about $600, more than a new model. He volunteered the informaion that mcurrent appliances are designed to last about seven years. An economics course I attended stated  the high price of appliances was due to the expected  life of approximately twenty-five years. Appears that is no longer true, but prices continue to escalate.

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