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pjones   10/24/2011 4:20:58 PM
The answer is definetly not.  If you believe that the EV1 was the best, you've never encountered a Honda "EV Plus".  The Honda was a much better vehicle.  My wife & I had an EV Plus for several days.  It would have fit our needs very well as a second car.  My wife's employer had a (free) charging station, that usually sat empty.  The Honda held 4 adults comfortably & had a range of ~125 miles.  As was the the EV-1, the EV Plus was leased only, & at a loss to the carmaker.

We did not consummate the EV Plus lease, only because our county had run out of state subsity allotments for electric vehicles.  Our county, Ventura of Cal., had 5 allotments.  We were no. 6 on the list & could not get the allotment.

User Rank
Re: Range rover
Tool_maker   10/24/2011 1:10:12 PM
I moved this thread off to the inactive side of things and had no intention of following it any longer, but I am compelled to respond to this. I do not know what irks me more: your arrogance at presuming to know what everyone in the world should have or your assumption that we agree that all things are to be equal. I spent time living abroad where people only wanted to know where their next meal was coming from and could not have cared less as to whether we drove EV's or Sherman Tanks, so long as it was not through their village.

I suggest that you apply your same logic to the time of the civil war and extrapolate thing forward from there. Before the internal combustion engine, the common mood of transportation was by horse. Fast forward to today and without technological advances, where in the world would we find land enough to grow the grass to feed all of those horses and how are we to dispose of the resulting manure?

You are right the available space will not change, but do not assume man has exhausted ways in which resources are to be utilized. Unless of course you still light your house with whale oil and commute by horse and buggy.

User Rank
Re: Range rover
etmax   10/23/2011 9:05:06 PM
I think the questions you, I and everyone else have to ask are these:

1. Is everybody in the world entitled to a similar BASIC standard of living? I think yes.

2. With the US average as a lifestyle we all aspire too can the world afford to have everyone live like that? I think that as an estimated 3.5 earths in resources and space is needed (and we don't have that) the answer is NO.


We a few choices:

1. Have to have a world where a select few live like kings and the rest live in abject poverty like in 3rd world countries.

2. We need a bigger earth (at least 3.5 times larger plus maybe more for expansion - a losing concept as capitalism requires contant growth)

3. We need to reduce the world population to 2billion very quickly while we still can (do you want to be one of the ones to go voluntarily?)

4. We need to totally rethink how we live including giving up a lot of the things we take for granted like range rovers, multi car families and lots of other stuff.


There are other questions and choices, but these are just a few to give the discussion some perspective. The things that won't change are available space, available resources, and almost everyone's perceived expectation that they have a right to anything they want without repercussions.

User Rank
Re: Range rover
Tool_maker   10/20/2011 8:58:55 AM
God bless you. You not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. I am sure you live a happy life with the choices you make, but it is not for me. You do it for your kids and that is honorable.

Some of my fondest memories of childhood come from time spent with my father in our boat. If you ask my kids I am sure they will also be able to point to early morning fishing trips on the lake in our boat as memorable and enjoyable experiences.

I guess I was thin skinned about the pollution comment so I plead guilty. I like to cook on charcoal, we do enjoy fires in our fireplace and my electric comes from a power plant. All of which is polluting somebody's air including my own. But I do not feel the least little bit guilty about it. I do not know what that says about me as a person, but I do know I have a beautiful wife of 44 years, have raised three great and productive kids and lead a happy life with my choices. None of which involve an electric car.

User Rank
Re: Best EV ever
jstack6   10/19/2011 7:12:28 PM
The EV1 was pretty good but had a few problems that the LEAF does not, below are a few.

The EV1 only sat 2 people with very liitle room for storage. The LEAF sits 5 and can hold a lot with fold down read seats.

The EV1 was leased only and then crushed. The LEAF can be bought, leased or even rented.

The EV1 had very high EMF given off. Read the Swedish TOC standards of 2 m-gaus or hight and the EV1 had 4 to over 20 I recorded. The LEAF is clean on EMF !

My LEAF can go 140 miles on a charge or if you drive like many peole only 60-100 miles. I only charge to 80% on an in car timer at 2 am so I help the GRID by using excess at off peak hours. An EV1 had not such options.

The EV1 used aluminum body and magnesium seat frames tryibng to reduce weight. That too expensive and didn't help much. The LEAF is made of recyclable matterials.

The EV1 had NiMH batteries which were good at the time but dies in the heat , I live in AZ and never had any problems with my LEAF batteries. They are good in cold and heat.

The EV1 was hand made 1 at a time. The LEAF is being made in a new factory in TENN. with a projected 150,000 a year possible along with 50,000 battery packs for sale to others.

Overall the LEAF is the car that is chaging the world. It's just in time and will get better. The EV1 was stopped as soon as GM could stop it and crushed. No mandates were needed with the LEAF. The LEAF was also just shown in smart money NOV 2011 as the best car for least cost to own and operate compared to many others over a 5 year total cost life. The batteries are warrentied for 10 yeats 150,000 or in non clean car states 8 years 100,000



Ralphy Boy
User Rank
Re: The Good Ole Days
Ralphy Boy   10/19/2011 5:38:08 PM
Hey Bill... I had a 60ish MG Midget... Fun to drive, but kinda like riding a skateboard when next to a semi... No worse than a motorcycle though.

Loved my VW Bugs too. Very basic and easy as pie to work on. A couple of them had second lives as dune buggies.

I like the newer vehicles for comfort features though. EV1 legend talk always makes me think of the selective memories I have about the Bug... The heater was the pits, defroster too. Long trips felt... long... Gas mileage was good but not up to what I get now in my Accord w/air. 

You're right... CFC was a waste to be sure. The 2 people that I know who used that program traded in $1000 plus value and bought Hyundai’s.

Electric cars replacing ICEs cars for the masses still are a ways off... and the EV1 probable looks better in the rearview mirror than it did in the driveway. 


User Rank
Re: Range rover
darelldd   10/19/2011 2:24:28 PM
Of course my boat is a lifestyle choice and that is my point. I chose the boat over an EV

You were accusing EVs of being toys for rich people... and you haul a boat around with a huge vehicle. My EVs are used for transportation, and they save me money as a great perk. I can only assume that your tow vehicle (and boat) cost more to operate than my EV becuase - why yes, I DO power my entire home and car with solar power. And since my PV system was paid off five years ago, I have paid nothing for my 10k+ miles per year. No energy and pollution waste from oil changes, tuneups or fuel. I have an entire website devoted to EVs and solar if you're interested.

My point: Boats and huge vehicles to tow them are toys. My solar-powered EV allows me to earn a living while not polluting my air or yours. You use "need" in a cavalier way. I contend that having reliable transportation is a need in our modern society. Towing and operating a boat for fun is not.

My "insulting" air pollution remark? You ask how I will dispose of my battery, and you don't wish to talk about how you are disposing of your gasoline - both in your tow vehicle and your boat? You are polluting my air and water. And if that sounds like an insult, I'm not sure how to respod. Every time you drive your truck or boat, you cause pollution. I'm at year nine with my batteries and zero operational pollution (recall the solar energy). There is a market for the used battery pack, and even when it is time to recycle, battery recycling in this country is one of the big success stories.

You worry about all the toxic chemicals in batteries and where they come from. We can't compare EVs to rainbows and the laughter of children. They must be compared to the gasoline vehicles being driven today. I have no illusion that building or disposing of an EV is totally green and clean. But compared to a gasoline vehilce - there's no contest.

I used to drive a truck, own a power boat and motorcycles. I now drive a solar-powered EV, and own a kayak and bicycles. The main catalyst that caused the big change for me? Having a child. How can I justify what we're doing to their future when we KNOW the damage we're doing? I'm not perfect. I'm definitely not sustainable. But I'm way closer than I was 10 years ago.

130,000 electric miles without an oil change, tuneup, or a drop of fossil fuel.

User Rank
Re: Range rover
darelldd   10/19/2011 2:07:21 PM
ICE - in-car entertainment.


Ah! New one on me. In modern auto tech lingo, ICE is Internal Combustion Engine, AKA, the enemy.  ;)

To put your mind at ease, please hear this - while HVAC usage can cause some reduction in range (just as it does in an ICE vehicle) none of the other entertainment items adds up to anything significant. Using wipers, playing the radio or DVD - are all insignificant compared to the traction power demands. HVAC is the only "accessorty" that reduces range. And even that is easily overcome by simply driving 2 mph (at most) slower at freeway speeds.

User Rank
Re: Range rover
Battar   10/19/2011 12:34:56 PM
ICE - in-car entertainment. Radio, CD, backseat DVD, satnav, bluetooth etc. Another power drain on the batteries.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Re: Is GM's EV1 Still the Best Electric Car Ever?
Charles Murray   10/19/2011 10:38:42 AM
To ssco00: Could you please e-mail me at charles.murray@ubm.com? Thanks.

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