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Re: Nitrogen
MIROX   3/15/2012 1:21:30 PM
YES a totally "insane" idea but people that have no real technical education can be sold on the $20 extra charge idea for "Nitrogen fill" in the name of "fuel saving" and longer tire life (no internal tire rubber oxidation !!!) and SHELL even advertises "extra" Nitrogen molecules in their Gasoline !

WOW just take the oxygen out of the air the engine breathes and all the world problems would be solved !!! (the cars would not run).

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Re: Not going to happen.
ksaldutti   3/15/2012 1:21:01 PM
1 saves

The fallacy is just that. What they the governmant says today what happens by then will be very very different. There is no way this is plausible. It is a joke. And the industries all know it. The fact is this governmant knows it. It is totally political and that is the truth and you will have just live with that fact. If your earth is suffering because of burning fossil fuels well get use to the fact that when you die some day we will still be burning fossil fuels, and those pick up trucks that you deplore so much buying beer at those a dirty convenient stores will be still doing just that at maybe 18 mpg. Oh and by the way the far left greenies in Hollywood and in Washington, New York etc. will still be one of the most prevalent polluters as they are today. With private planes, jets etc, opulent homes in several places throughout the world large engine sport cars and larger engine SUVs movie making and wasteful travel. Our gallivanting President flying around with wife and kids in toe at the cost of millions per and carbon credits out the butt. But hay its ok if the left dirties your precious earth but not our ((red neck)) pick up trucks for beer. It just so happens the liberal media never, never reports on those facts. So there! Now if you are so smart the please conjure up the private business capitol (not tax dollars) to develop a plausible fully electric automotive product. See isn't that easy?

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Re: 54.4 MPG
MIROX   3/15/2012 1:11:41 PM
Hook up a car to a truck !

Great idea, and I actually tried it once with Maserati hooked up to GM Panel van, the GM van got basically the same MPG (about 12) and the Maserati which normally got 7 to 9 MPG got "infinity". And at 70 MPH I forgot few times the car was behind the van (could not see it in the mirrors except when going through turns.

As far as the rest of the comments; nowhere I have seen anyone mentioning COST PER MILE (or per hour of use).


Basically if COTS do NOT matter you can get great fuel economy, or use no liquid fuel at all.

However in real life people can not afford to change $40,000 battery packs every now and then so they can use 3 cents of electric coal generated power per mile.

And almost all MPG improvements are either not practical or not cost effective until the cost of the fuel itself increases dramatically.

Fuels saving tires on HD trucks that cost $1,500 more do not save enough fuel (1.5%) to pay for themselves over the useful life, so such fuel saving technologies have to be mandated as they are in California, thus cost of everything related has to be increased just to pay for the "saving" in fuel reduction and cleaner air.

Engineering cars that KEEP all the luxuries, AC heater and 12 air bags just in case and getting 54.5MPG - will cost MORE per mile of use of the car, so while we may save fuel we will spend more money to drive.

If the price of fuel would be doubled - people would do it automatically by driving less or more efficiently and NO NEW technology would be needed !

Proper driving techniques can reduce improve fuel economy by 40% and reducing the vehicle size from what we think we need to actually match the true needs increases it by over 300% (but to replace all vehicles can take 20 years).

So dramatic increase in cost of fuel is the ONLY way any real life fuel saving and money savings can be accomplished IMMEDIATELLY !


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54.4 MPG
Frankh   3/15/2012 10:48:14 AM
Just a thought: 

If we want to cut fuel use, why not establish a "Hook-Up" facility at all "Truck Stops"?

 Allow me to dream a bit with this thought.-----At each "Truck Stop" you would sign up for coupling your vehicle to a truck, that is heading to the city, to which you want to travel. 

 The Truckers would look at the sign up list and then "Hook-up" your car to their tow bar system, at the rear of their cargo trailer.  You would pay the truck driver $xx.xx for the tow. 

You can then set back in your car, as its being towed to your destination and enjoy the ride. 

The Semi will likely not feel much difference in fuel economy (?). 

The Truck Driver makes some extra bucks--the car being towed uses no fuel--etc;. 

Now, I realize that changes to highway rules and the way towing can be physically acomplished will need to happen, but these changes are only a "one Time Event", with no further major adaptations required. 

Heck, it could spur a whole new business structure for Trucking Companies and Truck Stops and yield a new direction to saving fuel -- Its sort of a self imposed fuel rationing system, by your own personal choice (Never to be mandated, of course). 

 OK, now it is your turn to throw some rocks at this thought process--go for it!

Patrick Harris
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Patrick Harris   3/15/2012 9:46:46 AM
Nitrogen filled tires is the latest scam. Air is already 78% nitrogen. You'd get better results, if any, using helium.


Thanks MIROX, I forgot about the joke Shell commercials.

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Re: mpg in Europe,and only sold there!!!
Gusman   3/15/2012 9:34:12 AM
Un, not.  Fuel in Europe is sold by the liter.  I travel there regularly, know how to do the math, and can assure you that the actual MP(American) gallon is amazingly high, using current common-rail diesel engined cars.

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Re: Gas Mileage
M_S   2/6/2012 10:43:09 AM
I also calculate my gas mileage this way.  My Toyota Corolla (2002) gets from approximately 32 mpg (winter driving with the "oxygenated" fuels) to 38 mpg.  This depends to some extent on the type of driving I've done and much more on the temperature, use of heater or AC.  When I've done mainly highway driving, I have obtained as much as 41 mpg.

I have to comment on the article indicating mandatory nitrogen fill for tires.  That will make it impossible for automobile owners to fill up their tires on their own - unacceptable!

Alexander Wolfe
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Re: Gas Mileage
Alexander Wolfe   1/29/2012 1:26:27 PM
This is indeed true. I get my true gas mileage the same way, recording the odometer at each fill and dividing the mileage difference by the number of gallons I need to fill the tank. (Which gives you a close but not 100% exact reading, since your "full" fill point will be slightly different each time.  I think we all know that the EPA estimates will always be higher than real-world experiences. It's like stereo amp power figures in the old days, where manufacturers would rate their amps according to a std that made their max outputs seem way higher than RMS. Well, that was worse numbers-wise than the car mileage difference, but the car stuff is more important.

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partial power problem
nitchvideo   1/28/2012 3:40:26 PM
Ten pages of comments and not one direct mention of the "partial power problem".  I would ask you all please spend the few mins reading these materials so you can have a better understanding of the problem.

Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC)


A little on the partial power problem plus lots more related info


User Rank
How Do We Engineer Autos for 54.5 MPG?
StuDent   1/24/2012 5:55:54 PM
Along with all the strong suggestions that have been offered, I remember that the Saabs of the 1950's were free-wheeling. I'll bet with computer controls to cover the safety issues (like perhaps braking to temporarily stop free-wheeling) there could be a lot of additional fuel saving. Idle RPM as opposed to 3000 or 4000 rpm seems to me to have potential.

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