HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
News
Electronics & Test

Were the Boeing 787 Batteries Cooled Properly?

NO RATINGS
Page 1 / 2 Next >
View Comments: Oldest First|Newest First|Threaded View
<<  <  Page 3/6  >  >>
Elizabeth M
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Let's hope they get the chemistry right
Elizabeth M   1/28/2013 4:50:00 PM
NO RATINGS
Well, good! If that's the way it has to be, that's the way it has to be. Better to wait until the design is completely safe to fly the fleet than risk human life.

Elizabeth M
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Batteries, not composites
Elizabeth M   1/28/2013 4:50:32 PM
NO RATINGS
Yes, Ann, good point! At least it seems like that part of the design is sound.

apresher
User Rank
Blogger
Boeing 787
apresher   1/28/2013 4:51:29 PM
NO RATINGS
Given the importance of this issue to Boeing, I would be shocked if it kept the 787 down until 2014.  That would be a major setback to a very high profile program.  But I also think their engineers will also be very careful in avoiding missteps in implementing a solution to this problem. Not an easy thing to have the world watching while you solve a complex technical issue.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Were the Boeing 787 Batteries Cooled Properly
Charles Murray   1/28/2013 4:53:43 PM
NO RATINGS
Very good point, Paul. Elton Cairns of the University of California agrees with you. He told us that the higher, colder altitudes were a detriment, not an advantage in this situation. Cairns, by the way, should know: He designed the PEM fuel cells for the Gemini spaceflights in the 1960s.

edsparks3
User Rank
Iron
Overheating?
edsparks3   1/28/2013 4:57:15 PM
NO RATINGS
I can't believe Boeing would use a battery design that was not so carefully bench tested that there was absolutely no way it could overheat no matter what happened to the charging circuit and no matter how little cooling was available.    

On the other hand it is quite possible that due to vibration in the aircraft, the electrodes might go into a vibrational resonance allowing a couple to touch each other and cause an internal short.  This could be difficult - but not impossible - to simulate on the bench.  

But it might answer a lot of questions. 

 

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Design Decisions
Charles Murray   1/28/2013 5:06:41 PM
NO RATINGS
That's a scary thought, Bill. It's not hard to imagine Boeing deliberately choosing cobalt oxide for the higher energy density. That's its chief advantage over other lithium-ion chemistries and it's the reason many engineers choose that chemistry. But as for their alleged lack of a cooling system: It's anybody's guess. I think a lot of engineers are still climbing the learning curve when it comes to all the lithium-ion chemistries.

edsparks3
User Rank
Iron
Re: Were the Boeing 787 Batteries Cooled Properly
edsparks3   1/28/2013 5:10:05 PM
NO RATINGS
Ougassing should have been observed during tests.  True, low atmospheric pressure might accelerate outgassing but the atmospheric pressure inside a (pressurized) commercial aircraft cabin is generally in the range of normal. 

I also think vibration could be the culprit.  (see my comment, above).  

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Were the Boeing 787 Batteries Cooled Properly
Charles Murray   1/28/2013 5:13:22 PM
NO RATINGS
What is the atmospheric pressure inside a commercial aircraft, edsparks3? I believe I've always heard 2/3rds of an atmosphere.

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Design Decisions
bobjengr   1/28/2013 5:18:45 PM
NO RATINGS
nelso7926, I agree completely.  No injuries and certainly no fatalities.  I'm sure Boeing has tested and retested this system so I would certainly hope the issue is inadequate cooling and not the lack of cooling.    With that being the case, are all of the failures on the ground?  Are any experienced in flight?   Also, can anyone tell me if there are redundant systems for this device?  I don't think so but do not know. 

williamlweaver
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Design Decisions
williamlweaver   1/28/2013 6:40:05 PM
NO RATINGS
I share your scary thought, Chuck. I will always give Scientists and Engineers the benefit of the doubt, but as we are remembering the 27th anniversary of the loss of the Challenger's Crew today, sometimes margins of risk get bundled together into an "acceptable flight risk". Not suspecting anything nefarious, but with such a complex system, sometimes it is only possible to rank relative risk in hindsight.

<<  <  Page 3/6  >  >>
Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
If you didn't realize that PowerPoint presentations are inherently hilarious, you have to see Don McMillan take one apart. McMillan -- aka the Technically Funny Comic -- worked for 10 years as an engineer before he switched to stand-up comedy.
The first Tacoma Narrows Bridge was a Washington State suspension bridge that opened in 1940 and spanned the Tacoma Narrows strait of Puget Sound between Tacoma and the Kitsap Peninsula. It opened to traffic on July 1, 1940, and dramatically collapsed into Puget Sound on November 7, just four months after it opened.
Noting that we now live in an era of “confusion and ill-conceived stuff,” Ammunition design studio founder Robert Brunner, speaking at Gigaom Roadmap, said that by adding connectivity to everything and its mother, we aren't necessarily doing ourselves any favors, with many ‘things’ just fine in their unconnected state.
When my daughter decided she wanted to study engineering, I was very proud of her. At the same time, in the back of my mind, I wondered if she knew what she was in for.
AutoDesk has teamed up with 3D scanner provider Artec to link CAD software and 3D scanners to make it faster and easier to create accurate 3D mesh models for printing or digital use.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
11/19/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
11/6/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
10/7/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
12/11/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Dec 1 - 5, An Introduction to Embedded Software Architecture and Design
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Last Archived Class
Sponsored by Littelfuse
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service