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Electronics & Test

Ford, GM Team Up on Transmissions

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tekochip
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Platinum
Re: Co-opetition at its finest?
tekochip   10/11/2012 11:07:00 AM
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I hear that the Ford CV transmission was dropped because of business concerns.  The transmission was expensive, it couldn't handle the torque of the newer engine that was planned, and people didn't like the way it behaved.  Drivers are used to a certain cadence of sounds and the CV doesn't produce the same sound and feel that people were comfortable with.
 
Just the same, I'm sure the top reason was the cost compared to the six-speed.


Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
Charles Murray   10/11/2012 11:07:58 AM
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GM's eight-speed transmissions are being developed for production vehicles, Ggarnier. The company invested $204 million in the Toledo plant where they're being built. As of now, I don't believe GM has said which vehicles will use the eight-speed, and when they will appear (we've e-mailed GM to double-check for you). Reports from various news organizations have speculated that the eight-speeds will be used full-sized pickups and SUVs, with possible launch in early 2013. My guess is we'll hear more about it at the Detroit Auto Show in January.

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
Charles Murray   10/11/2012 11:44:07 AM
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Ggarnier: Here's a follow-up to my comment above. GM's answer to your question about how the 8-speed will be used: "We have not yet announced what products will get the 8-speed, Toledo-built transmission."

MVRS
User Rank
Iron
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
MVRS   10/11/2012 12:51:47 PM
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The 8-speed transmissions made by GM are probably the 8-speeds used in BMWs.  GM has been providing transmissions to BMW for over 20 years.

Ockham
User Rank
Gold
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
Ockham   10/11/2012 1:45:25 PM
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This is no big surprise. Everyone knows that GM has the best automatics in the business. That's a long pedigree going back as far as the hydra-matics, Turbo-hydramatics, etc.

That's Ford has jumped on the bandwagon with a GM supplied transmission. That's why Rolls Royce selected GM automatics for the Phantom V, more than sixty years ago.

Speaking of GM and Rolls Royce and automatics, I'm reminded of the anecdote about Rolls Royce receiving and testing the first GM build hydramatics for their Phantom V. This was when they first allowed an automatic of any kind in the vaunted Rolls Royce automobile. Recognizing that GM far outstripped them in experience and manufacturing, Rolls Royce turned to GM for an automatic transmission solution. GM supplied Hydramatics, the same transmission in Cadillac automobiles of the era. But, for some reason, the Brits were having trouble with the transmissions, and GM engineers were called in. Transmissions which were checked and double checked before leaving the US developed mysterious shifting problems once installed in the famous English marques. Engineers were puzzled and travelled to England to see what was up.

Turns out the Rolls Royce folks and taken the Hydramatics apart and carefully polished the Hydramatic cases and parts. This was done because they were "rough looking" and "not up to the Rolls Royce standard of finish". In doing so, they polished not only the externals, but the internal parts, including the valve body passages. In doing so they disrupted the carefully managed internal hydraulic pressures and valve body flow of the transmissions, thereby ruining the shifting characteristics.

http://www.kda132.com/Technical/SectionF/Hydramatic2/Hydramatic2_1.html

Here's a link to the complete story, lest you think I'm making this up.


Of course, they were pretty and shiny.

 

:-)

Ockham

 

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
Charles Murray   10/11/2012 2:55:44 PM
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I don't know about all of the BMW transmissions, MVRS, but I believe the 8-speed in the 740i comes from ZF Friedrichshafen AG. As I say, I don't know about any others.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
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Blogger
Re: Co-opetition at its finest?
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   10/11/2012 3:04:48 PM
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Continuously Variable Transmissions were being developed for Saturn, by Hydro-matric, (both divisions of GM) in 1984.  I was a detail draftsman in the CAD center there, right after college. Don't ask me too much, though;  I only lasted in that sweat-shop for about 6 months before landing a much better job!

BigDipper
User Rank
Iron
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
BigDipper   10/11/2012 4:46:16 PM
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GM may make some of BMW's transmissions but the 8-speed unit is a ZF.  The same transmission is used by Audi.

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: GM's current eight-speed transmission
Charles Murray   10/11/2012 7:33:20 PM
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You're right that Audi is using the ZF 8-speed, BigDipper. Lexus is also using it in the LS 460 and it's also being used in Chrysler and Dodge cars, as well.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Ford+GM on the ten speed Transmission?
William K.   10/11/2012 8:57:26 PM
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One question about the new transmission will be about how much power is used overcoming friction and keeping all of those gears spinning. The problems with the CVT types of transmissions were durability and cost, and I suspect that they had a bit more drag than a good manual 5 speed transmission. None of the power used to drive the hydraulic pumps in an automatic transmission is available to drive the vehicle, so there is a sort of problem right from the beginning. Unfortunately, all of the mechanism to provide the automated smooth shifting does consume a fair amount of power. Is there any competitive way around this challenge?

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