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Materials & Assembly

Aerospace Composite Rewrites Fabric Rules

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Beth Stackpole
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New architecture, new process?
Beth Stackpole   2/23/2012 7:43:21 AM
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This nonwoven architecture seems like it would have some real potential. Would it address some of the issues you've been writing about in terms of the challenges and concerns around addressing composite failures when aircraft are in the field? Also, I'm wondering about what's involved in creating and supporting the manufacturing process for a material like this. It seems like an entirely new approach and I'm wondering what kind of hurdle that could be for companies already invested in tools and processes specifically designed to support the use of composite materials in their products.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: New architecture, new process?
Ann R. Thryft   2/23/2012 12:06:22 PM
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Thanks, Beth, great questions. The main issues of concern about CFR composites have been detecting failure. Whether this material addresses that problem remains to be seen. One could hypothesize that because its failure modes take longer to reach breaking point and are more spread out throughout the fabric because of its different structure, that those failures might be more visible, using the safety glass analogy. Regarding process, fewer layers to achieve the same strength imply it will be faster, as well as saving a great deal more energy.

I'll email my contacts at Advaero to see if they can address those questions.


Jerry dycus
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Re: New architecture, new process?
Jerry dycus   2/23/2012 4:54:35 PM
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   Again another bad PR piece.  Nothing new here I can see as I've been doing this way  for 35 yrs!!  It's basic common sense among those who do it.

 While these examples are mostly true, no one does them because they are not cost effective or just plain dumb!!

  Anyone who uses woven CF just doesn't know enough to use it. CF is great only in tension, compression where it is very good.  But only if it stays perfectally straight. If bent as a weave it becomes very expensive springs!!  And just not much tension or compression strength in springs of CF.  So why do it?

Anytime you see woven CF cloth the only reason it is there is CF hype as once woven, has less strength than FG done right at 10% of the cost of CF.

As for the resins we have many that do the same thing as the example. Selective examples like used are just a form of disinformation.

RNDDUDE
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Re: New architecture, new process?
RNDDUDE   2/24/2012 10:36:50 AM
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When I first read Jerry's post, I thought he was being a bit of a Luddite. But after re-reading the article, I think he may have some valid points. The key thing is that the test was a tensile-pull-to-failure test. That is not at all indicitave of how CF structures are stressed. If the fiber orientation is almost parallel to the pull test axis, of course it will yield better results compared to a woven or cross hatch layup. I would like to see a variety of comparative test-to-failure scenarios (axial twist, bending, compression, etc.) between this layup method and traditional woven layups. I'm not saying this design doesn't potentially have merit, but the test shown is not conclusive evidence of this technique's validity in real world utilization.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: New architecture, new process?
Ann R. Thryft   2/24/2012 12:41:34 PM
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I heard back from Greg Bowers at Advaero. Here is his response: 

While I am not familiar with the referenced specific failures of composites in the field, most non-impact failures are a result of delamination of the fabric layers.  There is a developing scanning technology that will allow detection of defect or delamination failures in-situ.  These delaminations are generally initiated in the resin rich areas of composites.  Since resin is not as strong as the carbon fiber the cracks will start there and propogate until eventual failure.  Advaero's HVARTM infusion process coupled with the small diameter carbon fiber of Chomarat's NCF fabric significantly reduce the space between fibers and therefore reduce the resin rich areas.  Typical woven carbon fiber fabric is crimped in the weaving process thereby increasing pockets of space in the fabric and in the laminate interface.  More space....more resin rich pockets.  Repair of damage to composites in the field can be a challenge, especially larger repairs.  Advaero is developing a new nanofiber technology that we feel will provide a stronger repaired area yet it will be field capable.

 

Regarding tooling required for new composites:  There will be new or 

modified tooling required to make the NCF fabric but not radically 

different from today's processes.  Advaero's HVARTM process is a 

modification of well known resin infusion processes being used today and requires only small modifications to existing tooling. In some cases, HVARTM has the potential to replace the very expensive and energy consuming autoclave processes.  While this may result in some new tooling the cost is easily offset by the reduction in manufacturing costs.

 


RNDDUDE
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Re: New architecture, new process?
RNDDUDE   2/24/2012 2:30:21 PM
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Ann, Gregg's response hits at the real potential benefit of this methodology, namely decreasing the resin to fiber ratio and getting the fibers in as close of proximity as possible. The smaller fiber size is the crutial factor I believe. An example is wire rope design that gets stronger when the individual wire sizes are reduces and multiplied but the overall diameter stays constant. I reiterate my earlier post that the test cited does not accurately represent the gains possible in actual use. I imagine if one took virgin carbon fibers without any resin matrix and subjected them to the same test the results might be very similar.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: New architecture, new process?
Ann R. Thryft   2/24/2012 2:44:55 PM
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RNDDUDE, you are correct, the smaller fiber size, therefore denser fibers and resin to fiber ratio are what makes this possible. But so does stitching, according to the two people I interviewed from the consortium, instead of weaving. Stitching also contributes to less resin and more widely dispersed resin, as stated in the article.

Also, the tests used were for initial trials, also stated in the article. Other tests, however, have been done that are delineated in the journal article I gave a link to.


apresher
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Ripe for Innovation
apresher   2/23/2012 10:57:04 AM
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Ann,  This kind of development just underscores the fundamental need and desire for lighter but very strong materials.  Research and new product development in this area is vital enabling technology moving ahead on so many fronts when it comes to more efficient designs. Thanks.

Charles Murray
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Threefold tensile boost
Charles Murray   2/23/2012 6:43:02 PM
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Great article, Ann. Are they able to quantify the tensile capacity (in psi or ksi) of this material versus that of conventional woven carbon fiber fabrics? Or is it too early to give a solid number? Also, does the higher tensile capacity place it in a different set of applications? A threefold increase is an amazing jump.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Threefold tensile boost
Ann R. Thryft   2/24/2012 2:22:54 PM
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Chuck, that kind of detail is in the journal article (subscription required). I agree, it's quite a hefty increase.

Here's what Greg Bowers said about that:

As a follow up to some of your bloggers there were additional material  tests conducted on the NCF material.  Those results were published in the JEC Asia October 2011 magazine [article].  A blogger mentioned the application of fiberglass but fiberglass' strength to weight is inferior to carbon and therefore you see most aircraft using carbon fiber instead of fiberglass.


grand
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Iron
Unidirectional???
grand   2/24/2012 12:19:46 PM
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This sounds like Unidirectional Carbon Fiber that has been available for decades. Is the stitching part supposed to be the "Special" feature that we're supposed to take note of? Sorry, but I don't see anything special in this article (for those that don't know Unidirectional is much stronger in a pull test than woven, because all the fibers are oriented in the direction of load).

jlinstrom
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Gold
Optimum 3D fabric
jlinstrom   2/24/2012 3:29:28 PM
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3D random weave fabric WILL be weaker in any one direction than a directed fabric. I think the weave that 'emphasizes' directional stranding in response to major stress direction(s) is the ultimate solution and cross-sectional area control will help limit resin pockets. Just my 2015 prediction.

William K.
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Platinum
Nonwoven fabric of higher strength
William K.   2/24/2012 10:51:51 PM
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Thre times stronger is quite an achievement, but myguess is that there is a bit more to the method than was announced, and that it is more than simply random fiber angles. So I don't think that all those who may immitate will have the same results. But that is fine, since successful research deserves to be rewarded.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Nonwoven fabric of higher strength
Ann R. Thryft   2/27/2012 12:53:35 PM
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William, you're right that the fiber angles are definitely not random. The angles of the fibers in each of the fabric layers relative to the angles of the fibers in the layers above and below it are key.


jackiecox
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Platinum
temperature of new fabric threshold of tolerance
jackiecox   2/25/2012 9:20:36 AM
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Materials science produces an ever increasing array of new materials---However the temperature going through earths outer spin required ceramics for the now decommissioned shuttle 2, with obamas pet chicken, bankruptcy expert, elon musk, taking us back to the 60's with, LEO's, payloads of cheese, and splashdowns, and tales of actually going to mars, heralding the end of nasa as obama appoints an astronaunt in charge of the new NASA, like putting an airplane pilot in charge of boeing. Its like the price of gasoline, whereby obama doesn't care,speaking of other energy sources, trying to support his spending on popular but inpractical energy sources, like electric cars, pretending them to be clean energy, when they are powered by coal, mostly, I am waiting on the upcoming election fraud, to see some real change, like people uprising against affirmative actions seizure of the government, increasing innercity social welfare and more free meds, at the cost of american military, our independence replaced with slavery ( Free Trade ) Perhaps we wil need this new material for clothing, against the beating we are getting from our electorate ha ha ha

GlennA
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Gold
Re: jackiecox babble-rant
GlennA   2/27/2012 10:14:06 AM
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Your rant is lacking in factual basis, has no direction, and is missing a reasoned conclusion.

The deaths of the 3 Apollo One astronauts could have been prevented if the 'expert' opinions of the advising astronauts' against a full-up 100% oxygen test had been taken.

The deaths of the Challenger astronauts might have been prevented if the engineers' concerns about ice on the shuttle had not been over-ruled.

The deaths of the Columbia astronauts might have been prevented if the engineers had been allowed to make the observations they requested.  Those requests were denied because they could not be cost-justified - Sean O'Keefe's bean-counter management style.

An astronaut in charge of NASA seems lika a good idea to me.

Before US Airways went bankrupt I had a conversation with pilots who were told by management that the company's success depended on making shareholders happy, NOT by serving the interests of the passengers / paying customers.

Maybe not Boeing, but US Airways could have benefitted from the Pilots' opinion.

Information is not Knowledge, Knowledge is not Wisdom, Wsidom is not Truth.  I don't know who first said this.

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