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Materials & Assembly

Slideshow: Racing at Indy Grand Prix & Le Mans

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Brian Fuller
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Racing days
Brian Fuller   9/7/2011 12:43:38 PM
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I'm now kicking myself for not bringing my Nikon SLR along for that leg of the trip! But the iPhone 4 does a creditable job capturing still and video. 

Thanks for posting this. We got a chance to talk with Jay O'Connell, Bobby Rahal's chief engineer and he gave us a sense for the amazing communication that goes on in real time between the cars and the pit crew during the race (and which shows up graphically on their computing screens as what they call "marching ants" as the cars zoom around the track!). 

Here's a link to our post about how O'Connell and team are so good at what they do, that race series organizers have put a governor on their cars! 

 

 

 

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Racing days
Rob Spiegel   9/7/2011 2:39:23 PM
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The shots of the screens tracking the BMW were surprising. I didn't realize techy communications had moved so deeply into the racing world.

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Racing days
Beth Stackpole   9/7/2011 5:22:13 PM
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It was surprising to see the BMW crew at the helm of so many real-time data feeds and screens. What exactly is the data being fed to the pit crew and any sense of how it's transmitted?

My guess is the next step in the techie transformation of the pit crew will be to replace those semi-dated looking screens with some fancy, touch screen tablets.

grand
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Re: Racing days
grand   9/8/2011 10:58:47 AM
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Beth, Data Acquisition has been around for decades on race cars. Telemetry is cheap enough today, that even lower classes of racing are using it. If you want to know more about these electronics, you can go to http://www.cosworth.com/Default.aspx?id=1094933 The data is used to make the car and driver faster. Think about shift points, braking points, slower drivers not using full throttle either due to poor car setup or lack of confidence in the car.

Electric Indy, I doubt that the fans will show up for a race where the cars are so quiet that you can't hear them. The sound of an electric motor whining around the track does not get the adrenaline going. Interesting - Yes, Exhilarating - No.

BigDipper
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Re: Racing days
BigDipper   4/19/2012 1:25:49 PM
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Beth,

What you're seeing in the photo's is just the tip of the iceberg.  Compared to the technology in Formula One, this is kindergarten stuff.  Before it was outlawed, F1 had bidirectional telemetry - the car could be remotely modified by the engineers in the pits and, on occasion, from the factory.  Also, since real computers are needed in the pits, you won't be seeing too many iPads and such - not enough power or screen real estate - F1 engineers monitor upwards of 100 data points during a race.

Ivan Kirkpatrick
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An all electric Indy racer?
Ivan Kirkpatrick   9/8/2011 9:32:57 AM
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Anyone care to opine on just when and under what conditions we might find an all electric Indy race car?  It might take some creative interpretations of the rules or some edits but I am willing to bet it will not be too long before an all electric car is entered.  

I recall the turbine driven entry froma  while back that almost won.  That prompted some rule changes and I don't think we have seen one since.  

It would definitely mark a turning point in the storied history of Indy racing!

Charles Murray
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Re: An all electric Indy racer?
Charles Murray   9/8/2011 10:19:27 AM
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Ivan: Yes...Parnelli Jones' turbine car ran at Indy in 1968. The technology was quickly legislated out of future races. And you're right, Indy is all about rules, rules, rules, so an electric car would face a mountain of obstacles. I think you're onto something, though. What about an ALL-electric Indy race, where cars pull into the pits every 40 miles or so and use fast-battery-swap technology to install new sets of batteries? Sure, the cars would be slower than today's Indy cars, but maybe not as much slower as we might initially believe. Look this up: The White Lightning all-electric car actually ran at speeds of 240 mph. Maybe the race would have to be shortened, but it can be done. You may have launched a movement here, Ivan.

Jack Rupert, PE
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Re: An all electric Indy racer?
Jack Rupert, PE   9/23/2011 12:37:20 PM
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Yes, Charles, that what I was thinking.  It wouldn't work in a "real" Indy race for the rules reasons that you mentioned.  It might however work as an exhibition.  More likely, however, the technology leaders in electric automotive would probably need to do something like license the "Indy" name as a means of showing off their latest and greatest technologies.  However, isn't that sort of how the racing circuits were originally established - to show off the high-end engine techs?

Ozark Sage
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Re: An all electric Indy racer? NOT IF THERE SMART
Ozark Sage   2/13/2012 6:06:11 PM
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Jack.. You better not say that to ANY of the Worlds BEST engin OR car designers/builders who did more FOR Indy than Indy did for them!

naperlou
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Re: An all electric Indy racer? NOT IF THERE SMART
naperlou   2/17/2012 10:53:26 AM
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Ozark, I am not sure of what you are getting at, but Jack is correct.  Most of the racing circuits are a way for manufacturers to show off their product in extreme conditions.  This is the challenge. 

Ozark Sage
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Re: An all electric Indy racer? NOT IF THERE SMART
Ozark Sage   2/17/2012 2:33:49 PM
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 all electric Indy racer? NOT IF THERE SMART
naperlou  I agree that IS THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION, but disagree that it is the PRO BUILDER, OWNER & DRIVER perception.  I say this because the state of the art was DESIGNED, ENGINEERED, AND PAID FOR NOT BY INDY but, all the others involved in RACE CARS WORLDWIDE.

Indy Motor Speedway over the last 2 decades has inflated costs on everything to the extent a LARGE part of the public can't aford to attend EVEN WITH THE TV & COMMERCIAL UNDER WRITING.  And if you think I am kidding check out the cost of a summer nylon jacket in their Track Store next time you go there.

Names like OFFENHOUSER, CURTIS,  CHEVY, FORD,HONDA, and the list goes on, longer than your memory will hold, left their MARK and  BLOOD on tracks arround the world.   As I see it the LAST PLACE EVs will be RACED, AFTER THEY are proven, is gasoline  alley  ...to mark the passing of an era.... and CELEBRATE THE END OF FOSSIL FUEL

In short we sure don't need Indy to get there!

Nick Vassilakis
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Iron
Fans in the stands
Nick Vassilakis   9/8/2011 1:03:24 PM
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Racing electric vehicles has been a constant evolution since their invention 100 years ago and solving challenges related to range, speed and quick battery swaps are all within reach towards creating a vehicle that can compete against a current Indy Car. However, if the race does not provide the visceral experience of hearing  and feeling the noise of 20 highly tuned Indy Car engines hurtling down the front straight, there is little chance of atracting fans to the stands, to witness (read: fund) the event.  

notarboca
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Re: Fans in the stands
notarboca   10/1/2012 12:56:35 AM
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EV races, for me, wouldn't cut it as a fan driven sport.  Maybe when everybody, and I mean everybody, drives an electric car, and the speeds for racing were exceptional, would it be acceptable.  For a lot of race fans, the sights, sounds, and smells of these 750+ HP machines are as much a part of the experience as the competition.

William K.
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Indy racing slideshow
William K.   11/29/2011 5:12:10 PM
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The "INDY 500" is a great example of just how many rules can be applied to an activity. The opposite, which is more down to earth, and much farther away from NASA, is "World Of Outlaws" racing. Race cars costing hundreds of dollars instead of hundreds of thousands. 

My impression, during the time I was able to look at one of those cars from a touchable distance, was that they are far closer to a military high performance aircraft than to a race car. Many of the components were the same, such as tubing and electrical connectors, and frame attachments.  Of course, for driving at those speeds for extended periods of time, it probably is appropriate to use that variety of components. 

Thanks for the pictures.

RICKZ28
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Sports have Rules
RICKZ28   2/8/2012 3:46:23 PM
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As a lifetime fan of professional big-time car racing (and sports fan in general), I was interested to read the various comments by engineers concerning IndyCar racing.  I've attended several IndyCar races, and many NASCAR races over the years. 

First of all, professional auto racing is a sport, and all sports have rules.  It's really all about the sports competition, not the equipment.  Every team must follow the same rules.  While it takes a great car to win a race, it also requires a great driver and team.  People race cars because people have been racing...well since there's been people (but yes, the manufacturers like the marketing of thier products through racing).

Second, rules in racing is to contain costs and provide safety.  With no rules, the cars would be much-much faster!  I remember seeing speeds of 270 mph at Indianapolis many years ago, just way too fast!  F1 mandated a chicane at Indy to keep the speeds down on the main oval for safety, too fast for the F1 cars and their tires.  With no rules, there would be the tendency for one or several drivers/cars/teams that would dominate, those who spend the most money.  It takes a great driver to beat the rest when the cars are evenly matched..."sporting event".

For those who desire an electric car Indy race, why not form your own professional race organization for electric race cars?  The Indianapolis Motor Speedway may actually like having another feeder race before the actual Indy 500 (or Brickyard 400 for NASCAR).  Who knows, maybe it would even be popular and attract attention, further progressing the sport (the way Indy racing started out).

I don't expect a Toyota Prius to perform in acceleration, handling and braking with my 1998 Chevy Camaro Z28, but I can't compete with the fuel efficiency of the Prius.  ...but then, the Prius was not designed and engineered to be a competent 2-door sport coupe "performance" car.

 

bob from maine
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Re: Sports have Rules
bob from maine   4/19/2012 12:10:23 PM
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Without rules, more rules and more rules again, races would be won by the team with the most money. When you're dealing with the technological comlexity of an Indy car, only the wealthiest teams can compete and even then, the team with the most money usually has a significant edge.  A team that can drive a million dollar race-car to destruction and have a ready spare is going to push harder than a single-car team. The most successful racing teams are the ones that can bend the rules without quite breaking them. Nice article and pic's.

 

ChasChas
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I miss motor racing
ChasChas   3/6/2012 11:11:28 AM
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Racing used to be a contest between one car and driver against another car and driver with speed being the deciding factor.

Now there are so many rules, regulations, exceptions, etc. that you need a lawyer to win a race. Often races are decided in arbritation long ofter the fact. They say it makes racing safer.

The tracks are obsolete for modern racing. They need to design tracks to take on the new techonology in racing instead of outlawing it.

Drag racing, air racing and motocross are still pure enough to enjoy.

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