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Undersampling Changes Bandwidths

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mrdon
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Undersampling Changes Bandwidths
mrdon   10/19/2012 9:53:44 AM
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Hi Jon, Nice article as usual. The question I have relates to the best prototyping method to see the signal behavior in Undersampling Changes related to bandwiidth. Although digital filters seems to be the choice technique in doing controls analysis for Mechatronics of this subject matter, is it possible to obtain good analysis results using op-amp based Active Filters?

naperlou
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Re: Undersampling Changes Bandwidths
naperlou   10/19/2012 11:37:07 AM
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mrdon, I vote for the op-amp based filter.  I looked it up after reading your comment.  An op-amp was the first IC I played with when I was young (about 12 years old). 

Jon, perhaps you could address that in your next column.  It would be interesting to compare some of the operational parameters and performance of the two.  Filtering is an important concern in many types of applications.

mrdon
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Re: Undersampling Changes Bandwidths
mrdon   10/19/2012 1:11:27 PM
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Hi naperlou, Thanks for the comment and your vote on the op-amp. I'm somewhat  gravitating towards the op-amp as well. I agree, Jon should do a column on the performance of op-amps(Active Filters) versus digital filtering techniques via DSP ICs and microcontrollers as well as the signal management benefits of each as it relates to Controls theory and analysis.

kendallcp
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Re: Undersampling Changes Bandwidths
kendallcp   10/22/2012 9:35:39 AM
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Hi mrdon - if you're interested in comparing the performance of digital and analog filters, my Filter Wizard articles on that topic might be of interest.  You can access them all at http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/News/filter-wizard.html#.  Undersampling is, by definition, a sampled domain activity.  But mixing, in other words multiplication by a carrier waveform, has very similar behaviour in the continuous time world.  moving signals around between different frequency bands is essentially what a radio does.  best / Kendall

mrdon
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Re: Undersampling Changes Bandwidths
mrdon   10/22/2012 11:36:13 AM
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Hi Kendall,

Thanks for the link to your Filter Wizard articles. These webpage is awesome! This webpage will serve as a great resource for the Design News community, my ITT Tech Electronics Technology students, and myself as well.

Jon Titus
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Re: Undersampling Shifts Bandwidths
Jon Titus   10/22/2012 12:00:58 PM
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Thanks for your comments.  The column should have had the headline, "Undersampling Shifts Bandwidths," but it got posted before I suggested that change.

Op-amp filters and digital filters would make for interesting columns.  I have a couple of columns about sensors but can tackle filters after that.  Thanks for the good suggestion.  In the meantime keep in mind the digital filters also represent sampling devices, which adds another "wrinkle" to the sample-rate selection.  More later.

mrdon
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Re: Undersampling Shifts Bandwidths
mrdon   10/22/2012 1:03:10 PM
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Hi Jon, I look forward to reading the column and thanks for the digital filter tip. Great articles as always!

dblakley
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Re: Undersampling Shifts Bandwidths
dblakley   4/3/2013 2:15:10 PM
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When considering under-sampling and its potential effects on bandwidths and spectrum, an associated question naturally occurs: 'What are the expected effects to amplitude response or sensitivity that would arise from undersampling'?

AngeloR
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Formulas for Undersampling
AngeloR   12/2/2013 2:09:56 PM
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Dear Jon, I am very amazed in seeing that in your article you have ignored my name in reference to the formulas for the undersampling reported in the table while you are quoting only the book by Lyons Richard. Yet in a your preceding article: Undersampling Shifts Frequency-Jon Titus, Contributing Editor-Design News, September 4, 2006, my name was quoted after I had informed you that I had published the formulas long before in: Angelo Ricotta, "Some remarks on the sampling and processing of SODAR data", Technical Report, IFA 83/11, IFA-CNR, July 1983, (pp. 4-7, in Italian). At that time I also had written to Lyons Richard who, in the first edition of his book, had attributed the formulas to: Hill  G. "The Benefits of Undersampling, " Electronic Design, July 11 1994. But George Hill had simply copied them from me! Lyons Richard recognized the plagiarism but now I see that in the second edition of his book he not only doesn't cite me but describes the formulas as if he had deduced them!
All of this is very incorrect! See the whole story in http://angeloricotta.altervista.org/UndersamplingAR/UndersamplingAR.htm

My best regards

Angelo Ricotta

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