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Home and Grid Energy Storage Gains Momentum

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More uses for this technology
trag2015   5/20/2015 9:30:02 AM
Another Company EOS Energy Storage has developed a storage system for power plants to alleviate the Peak Power crunch that power companies experience on hot summer afternoons. They have a 4MWh product that fits in a 33 ft Nema container.

The Technology is a zinc based battery with expected 30 year life.


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Home and grid energy storage gains momentum
Subnormal   5/20/2015 10:48:43 AM
The article itself is very interesting, at least it does bring up the point that without a means of storing the energy, Wind Turbines and solar farms have a limited impact.

The article does mislead however when it brought up Tesla's home storage units.  Other articles have talked about how neither is compatable with a home solar panel array.  The larger unit is designed for a back up only and can only be charged and discharged 30 times a year.  Hardly often enough to offer any relief in energy costs.  The smaller unit has a discharge rate of 5 amps, this is not oven amperage to run a toaster.  I hardly see either option being any type of threat to utility companies.

I also do not understand all the negative press that untility companies get in articles like this.  My state has imposed renewable energy targets that increase over time.  Obviously this is going to increase the costs for the power company.  I have also read articles that talk about how the prices are going down for renewables and they do not understand why the utility company would be charging more.  They still have to pay for their existing renewable sources, regardless if new systems are cheaper. 

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Tesla home battery makes sense for car charging
przemek   5/20/2015 10:49:01 AM
The Tesla home battery at first sight is very limited: doesn't even have a power converter, and has a rather low output power; it didn't make sense until it occurred to me that it is a backup for the home charging station for their cars. Considering that 80 kWhr (Tesla full charge) costs about $10 at typical US electricity retail prices, a solar trickle charged storage suddenly makes a lot of sense.

Jerry dycus
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Re: Home and grid energy storage gains momentum
Jerry dycus   5/20/2015 11:59:30 AM
First large grid just don't need battery storage. And neither does solar or wind as just cheaper to turn on another generator.

The proof is until being forced and then only when basically given them free utilities just have no use for them.

Nor would homeowners with solar, wind if the utility paid what it was worth as just seen as a demand valley which grids have easily hadled for 100 yrs now.

As for % of solar, wind Cal has passed 24% now and heading to 30% with no need of grid batteries.

With a smart grid no reason for batteries to well over 50% of the grid. And large dumps like EV charging, syn fuels, etc will suck up the excess.  And each EV can with V2G put 100-300kw back into the grid for for peak and charge back in the  lulls. Multiply that by 1 million EV's in say LA.

Hawaii is so badly run at $.44/kwhr making solar payback in just 1 yr done right giving 100% ROI/yr for 20+ yrs, why would anyone stay with it's grid?  They are still running diesel engines!!  The most expensive generation when it's high steady wind, solar handling A/C peak with the same diesels running on biomass/syngas for the rest means they should be 100% clean low cost $.10/kwhr power.

The only reason for home batteries is time of day pricing or grid so expensive like Hawaii, Northeast, etc, just not worth staying ongrid.

Fact is the $15-50 monthly fee can pay for a lot of battery,  battery charging generator/heater plus no longer paying high kwhr rates in many places, it pays to leave the grid .

  Even here in Fla with $.12kwhr and $14/month fee because they won't pay what solar is worth and add fees to do it, means even at the national average going offgrid can be worth it in my new retirement home.

And of all batteries lithium is NOT the right one as many others are under $100/kwhr with unlimited life like the GE, Zebra Molten salt, many other types will win that market.

The only reason batteries are needed is grid greed making the market worth their expense. 

But there are viable ones now including real deep cycle lead, sub type for big grids have always been there for over 100 yrs now.  I've been doing them for 40 yrs with wind, tidal and diesel as only recently have solar been worth it.

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People won't wait
ChasChas   5/20/2015 12:26:48 PM

Electric car drivers need a gas backup for when they gotta go and can't wait for a charge - this alone nearly defeats the purpose of the electric car.

A home battery exchange is the only answer. This article brings out the feasibility of that. The home batteries would not be a single purpose solution.

Solar power, wind power, off peak savings, etc. become a reality.

It makes sense to keep energy solutions at home and reduce your energy dependency.

Jerry dycus
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Re: Home and grid energy storage gains momentum
Jerry dycus   5/23/2015 8:56:11 AM

It is the small 7kw one used as just a backup and it won't be available for a while.

There amp is 8.5 at 360vdc so quite easy to run a toaster.  Though amazingly low 2-3kw output.

It is designed for solar storage so why are you listening to, believing  such lies?

Why does big wind, solar need storage?  It is handled  the same way varying demand has been done for 110 yrs now.   No?

If one adds capacity of any type doesn't increase back up, storage needs. Please show the math where that is true?

Why don't they have massive storage now?

That is a myth which Cal utilities kept running so Cal forced them to put in many MwHrs storage.  That will teach them.

Any possible grid battery needs is now moot with the new 60% eff NGGTCC planys that can throttle to 50% following the load eliminating any battery storage needs. No?

Just how does putting in clean power increase costs when they are lower cost and no fuel cost?

How do the clean utilities where legal like Texas take away PPA's/contracts/customers by charging less if clean power is more expensive?

Personally for me coal generation costs me $400/yr in higher, better protein costs as coal mercury poisoning limits fishI get for free, they actually jump in the bpat here in la my last trip, I can only eat 1/wk.

That is just one coal  pollution cost for 1 person is $400.  There are many others that increase YOUR income taxes by 7% to fix the pollution, healthcare, etc mess coal makes but doesn't pay for.

I guess you like getting screwed for coal corporate welfare and think we show keep paying it?

The State of Fla makes it illegal to make on demand clean or dirty power and sell it thus cutting 30k jobs we could have as utility corporate welfare.

Seriuosly try to be more accurate than parroting utility, FF propaganda that is screwing you, and you say, screw me again by your post.  What's up with that?  






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Pending Review
rja_wvu   5/23/2015 9:03:41 AM
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Re: Home and grid energy storage gains momentum
megadesign@windstream.net   5/23/2015 11:51:39 AM
I thought all the comments were interesting but very vague.  I think we will require energy storeage with clean power and it could even help dirty power.  The point of coal dirt costing us money seems valid.  Cost is an issue but if the initial cost is high it doesn't matter as much that there is a fuel cost for a much lower priced installation.  What really matters to me is the truth behind our energy in this country and the world.  Is the energy totally driven by pure greed and is there a viable solution that would be cost effective?  I've done a lot of research and if there is a solution then it is pretty well hidden.  Solar and wind are expensive and not as predictable.  The idea of a good storeage unit would really help.

Jerry dycus
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Re: Home and grid energy storage gains momentum
Jerry dycus   5/23/2015 12:27:35 PM
New coal cost $4k/kw, wind $1k/kw and utility solar $2k/kw. 

So for a coal Kw you can have 2kw of wind and 1kw of solar with no fuel, it's handling, clean up,  pollution, etc costs.

Please tell me again how clean power costs more?  Math doesn't show it with recent contract lets.

I suggest reading Pennenergy and PowerEngineering websites, newsletters by the industry to learn what is actaully happening, real costs being paid. 

With a smart grid natural storage like hydro, EV's, home, building on demand/peak production DG, biomass, etc means little grid storage is needed, just adjust demand and supply with price incentives by paying what they are worth for them.

And since new utility generation is mostly load following just why is grid storage needed?

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