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Slideshow: Profs Say Fukushima Plant Passed Ultimate Test

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Totally_Lost
User Rank
Silver
Re: Fukishima a success? Doubtful -- Almost Certainly :)
Totally_Lost   5/4/2013 12:23:45 PM
NO RATINGS
Night Owl ... By my definition (the many years that many other Nuke plants have created safe clean electrict power) is the same definition by which you continue to have safe successful drives to work.

Not safe are those around you doing stupid things ... that you have learned from hopefully ... like not driving drunk, not driving while texting, not driving sleepy, not driving while distracted with a cell phone call, and the many other mistakes the rest of us learn from.

The BS is your focusing on mistakes of a few failures in the Nuke industry, and crying wolf that EVERY Nuke plant will do the same thing .... that is just as stupid as focusing on the failures of stupid drivers, and delaring everyone driving to work will die while trying to be safe and not do those stupid things.


The BS is your believing the anti-nuke propaganda, and being irrationally afraid of what is simply unlikely to happen. Just like all those that will huddle in the darkness this year during a hurricane or tornado, that are equally irrationally afraid of an earthquake, or afraid to get in a car because some people do die every minute in one, or get in an airplane because some people die in one every few years.

The BS is that you completely lack a valid argument, so you resort to personal attacks.

I'm sorry you have failed to learn to make careful reasoned choices between competing not so black and white issues ... the world is grey, not every solution is perfectly good or bad ... we do our best with well informed compromises between difficult choices.

Money, time, resources, are all limited ... at this point building more Nukes to fuel an electric transportation infrstructure is by far cleaner, and will save more lives world wide, than the carbon producing, polution producing, fosil fuels we use today for transportation. The few nuke deaths and long term health injuries from accidents along the way are simply insigificant in terms of the common good to reduce the death and environmental injuries from fossil fuels that kill and injure millions every year.

Competing choices ... Nuke electric power  for business, residential and transportation ... or a lot more carbon producing, greenhouse gass, fosil fuel environmental damage that kills millions of people .... we got it, you are one of the environmentalists with the agenda to have genecide reduce the population back to ice age numbers, and save the planet from humans. So you are perfectly happy that millions of people are being exterminated by increased fossil fuel use. Horray, Horray, for you ... but sorry ... I don't buy that propaganda anti-nuke to exterminate the human race with fossil fuel byproducts and another ice age from green house global warming.

 I happen to have fun with using Totally_Lost as a screen name, because it alwasy brings the clueless out to show their true colors at being just plain stupid with a lack of civility. Keep up the personal attacks, and enviornmentalist anti-nuke propagana, and fail to present a better cleaner, safer world for the milions that suffer every day from automotive byproducts .... horray, horrray, you are doing such a really sucky job at helping make the world a better place for millions of people every year that really do need to be protected.

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: Fukishima a success? Doubtful
patb2009   5/4/2013 12:03:11 PM
Hurricane's are predicted 72 hours out, and tornado's predicted with 90 minute warning.

Earthquakes like reactor meltdowns hit out of the blue and cause tremendous damage without time to think about it.

 

 

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: Good news for nuclear
patb2009   5/4/2013 12:01:31 PM
" ONLY a few thousand folks have been impacted by nukes,"

 

you seem to ignore Chernobyl, which wiped out agriculture in the soviety union for

a generation.  They only stopped shooting radioactive deer in finland last year.

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: Fukishima a success? Doubtful -- Almost Certainly :)
patb2009   5/4/2013 11:58:50 AM
Totally_lost

1) All of these problems and solutions were known since the 1970's, the problem has been the NRC has never cracked the whip to mandate these fixes.

Take for example Browns Ferry, in 1974, a fire came within 30 minutes of melting the core.

No reactor with this same design flaw, including Browns Ferry have been fixed.

 

At the end of the day, the plant operators are intense cheap skates, and the PUC views coal as significantly cheaper then Nuke.  As a result between 1982 and 2013, only a handful of new nuclear plants have been brought on line.  The Ops costs and capital costs of nuke was already making the industry non-competitive, adding in safety features would 

merely make this worse.

 

as for storage of wind and solar, i'll note old school lead-acid batteries are 98% recycled.

plus there are lots of other methods to store energy, my favorite is pumping water into municipal water towers and building water storage tanks.  Use the down rush pressure to help modulate short term drop outs.  

 

You say success is always available, but to quote Wargames" Sometimes the only way to win is not to play".

 

NiteOwl_OvO
User Rank
Gold
Re: Fukishima a success? Doubtful -- Almost Certainly :)
NiteOwl_OvO   5/4/2013 11:28:27 AM
Totally_Lost,

Your idea of success worries me. By your definition I have yet to have a successful drive to the office, because I've made there each time, alive and intact. Maybe I will have an opportunity to succeed over the weekend. Who knows?

(OvO)

NiteOwl_OvO
User Rank
Gold
Re: Good news for nuclear
NiteOwl_OvO   5/4/2013 11:18:22 AM
Totally_Lost,

A good name choice, BTW. My concern is not with attacks on energy sources or with over-hyped environmentalist propaganda, including the BS you are spouting. My concern is with government and industry downplaying and outright covering up of major catastrophes. These lead to over-confidence, ignorance and repeated mishaps. The federal government didn't suddenly abandon plans to store nuclear waste in the Yucca Mountain facility and require that nuclear waste be stored on-site because of political issues or environmental propaganda. The president at the time ordered a halt to the transport of high-level radioactive waste by truck and rail. Why? Did you hear about any incidents in the news regarding radioactive waste? I never have. How many train derailments and traffic accidents involving heavy trucks happen every year? What are the odds that some of them were carrying radioactive highlevel waste? It only takes a few... If you wear your blinders and buy into the pro-nuke hype then you can believe that Nuclear power generation itself is relatively safe and fairly "green", but waste management is another story.

I can't ignore the incidents that happen regularly at the TMI facility. We've been lucky so far. The fail-safes have kicked-in and shut down the reactors each time and if you believe the propaganda, the radiation leaks, coolant spills and plumes of radioactive steam have released less radiation than is given off by a bannana. That particular bannana must be made of plutonium. They would have us believe that radioactive core water is totally safe. In fact it turns out that super-heated core water makes a great cup of tea. It's also fantastic for steamcleaning automobile upholstery. Maybe they should market the stuff.

(OvO)

Totally_Lost
User Rank
Silver
Re: Fukishima a success? Doubtful -- Almost Certainly :)
Totally_Lost   5/4/2013 10:30:17 AM
NO RATINGS
PatB - The success is that evolving work that had been done since previous failures, did a fair to good job of preventing an even worse failure. The success is that we have solid data to retrofit existing plants to avoid the same types of failures. The success is that we have solid data to improve the designs of new plants to avoid these failures in the future. The success is because of, and dispite the significant costs of these failures, we can move forward with better solutions that make the technology safer in the future.

The success is that we have hard economic data for potential losses, to renegotiate capital investment  limitiations by Public Utilities Commissions held low by consumer demand for low cost electric power. Dispite the cries on all sides, we do learn from the mistakes, both big and small, and move forward with better designs and solutions, for clean cheap electric power from Nukes.

The success is that over 60 years, and many Nuke power plants world wide, there have been only a few serious failures. The success is that both because of, and dispite the failures, engineers are allowed to keep making it better every day, every year.

The success is that both because of, and dispite anti-nuke protests, this industry continues to advance in safety and production, giving clean electric power without high carbon emmissions from natural gas and coal.

You state that wind and solar just need storage ... toxic batteries? more hydro dams? both are on the environmentalist kill lists.

Success is always available when you have the opportunity to learn from others mistakes.

Totally_Lost
User Rank
Silver
Re: Good news for nuclear
Totally_Lost   5/4/2013 1:25:29 AM
NiteOwl .... I strongly believe that everyone should live a full and productive life, without concerns about degraded health from accidents and environmentals.


At the same time, ONLY a few thousand folks have been impacted by nukes, while statistics show 1.25M per year are killed world wide by automotive accidents, and several times that seriously injured and maimed.

If you want to include the few tens of thousands more that are victims of radiation health risks, then you also need to accept the few million more each year that are victims of enviornmental risks caused by automotive byproducts as well.

Are you blindly immune to the death and suffering of roughly 10M people per year, while grossly preoccupied with the plight of a few thousand simply because of a subculture popular politically motivated hate for nukes?

EVERY fuel and renewable energy source is under attack in America by so called environmentalists. EVERY fuel. EVERY renewable energy source. That includes clean renewable energy, especially hydro power because more would require more dams, and down stream issues. Wind farms meet strong local resistance from sight pollution, and noise polution. Both solar and wind require energy storage, of which reverse flow hydro is the most practical ... but just try and build another dam to store that energy. It simply can not be stored by very dirty toxic battery technologies.

It comes down to trade-offs ... difficult trade-offs ... if we are going to abandon fosil fuels, then we need nukes. There is no practical way to store solar and wind, in ways that service civilan energy needs for business, residential and transportation. Nukes plus electric cars/trucks go a long way to reaching the stated goals of reducing carbon emmissions and fosil fuel dependence. Not solar, Not wind ... they help, but without signficant access to hydro storage, they are simply political candy for environmentalists.

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: Fukishima a success? Doubtful
patb2009   5/4/2013 12:08:53 AM
"

I can hardly wee anything that would qualify as a success except perhaps for the luck that radiation was carried out to sea instead of back towards higly populated tokyo."

 

only on the first day, on the third day, when reactor 3 exploded, the winds were towards tokyo

NiteOwl_OvO
User Rank
Gold
Re: Good news for nuclear
NiteOwl_OvO   5/3/2013 3:06:29 PM
While I do like their website's icon, that article states information that is questionable or wrong, like "Cars are dangerous, but not only because they're made of several tons of glass and steel, and move at high speeds through densely populated areas..." I don't know of any cars built in the past 40 years that weigh several tons. Also, the emissions study focuses on countries where there has been a recent boom of automobile sales, specifically India and China where there are no current emissions requirements. Those numbers do not apply to the rest of the developed world. You are taking data out of context and using it to trivialize catastrophes that will have real long-term health and environmental impacts that the local goverments and nuclear power industry would rather not be made public. Are you really sold on the propaganda or is it just easier for you to sleep at night if you tell yourself that nobody is getting hurt by nuclear power?

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