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Tested in Virtual World, Curiosity Rover Preps for Mars Landing

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naperlou
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Rube Goldberg??
naperlou   8/2/2012 8:50:21 AM
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This is a very complicated and strange landing sequence.  It is, of course, dictated by the environment and size of the craft, but it is still fantastic.  The only way to plan this out is simulation.  That in itself is a big process.  The delay in communications caused by the great distances in space has always made commanding interplanetary craft complex.  You don't command it like a RPV.  In effect, you send up a program that handles the maneuver, and hope it works.  Here's hoping this one works on Mars.

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Beth Stackpole   8/2/2012 10:17:46 AM
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There will no doubt be a ton of nail biting over this landing. It is so complex and in some ways, appears so convoluted, but I suppose that is what's necessary for this particular exploration. The whole notion that they are dark for seven minutes before knowing if the mission was a success or not is pretty mind boggling.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   8/2/2012 2:11:15 PM
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Wow, Beth – thanks for that article.  What a difficult scenario to resolve!  Two lines sum it up:

,,,,, seven minutes to travel from atmosphere to surface, but 14 minutes for a signal ,,,,,

,,,,,, By the time we get a signal back, it will have either crashed or successfully landed ,,,,,

Talk about the Kobayashi Maru!!  Accordingly, the entire sequence has to perform autonomously, perfectly, and without any correctional interventions.  What a fantastic challenge; I'll be watching Space.Com and other sites on August 5th for news on this!

Cadman-LT
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Cadman-LT   8/2/2012 6:12:10 PM
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Beth Stackpole Loved the article. 

Cadman-LT
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Cadman-LT   8/2/2012 6:14:48 PM
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I already have it set on DVR. It's landing is on the science channel on Monday 8/13 at 10pm EST.

Cadman-LT
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Cadman-LT   8/2/2012 6:18:31 PM
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Beth Stackpole: It does seem like a lot of things must go right. The most confusing thing to me(I understand why) is the crane. I just can't wait to see it on tv. Wish they had the swamp people camera crew there to film it, that'd be awesome!...lol 

Cadman-LT
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Cadman-LT   8/2/2012 6:24:31 PM
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Not to go off subject, but if any cameramen are out there that knows how those swamp guys get those shots I would sure like to know. I can figure out most of them, but some just leave me thinking...how the heck did they do that?! It might be a strange show, but unbelievable camera work.

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Beth Stackpole   8/3/2012 8:14:28 AM
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The crane is what they came up with to lower the rover on to the surface after vastly decelerating it with rockets. Apparently, if the rockets get too close to the surface, they kick up a dust storm that would ruin the equipment and rover itself, so they required a more streamlined and less intrusive way to lower the rover to Mars surface.

marswalker
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
marswalker   8/3/2012 9:29:05 AM
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Hi Beth,

Actually, from watching the press conference last night, a bigger reason for the sky crane vs. a legged-lander (like Phoenix and Viking) is a legged lander would have to land on perfectly flat land, and perfectly upright, or it would most likely topple over.  As a retrorocket approaches the ground - given the lack of air pressure and the unevenness of the ground, back-pressure from the rocket exhaust could spike unpredictably.

These two reasons make a legged-lander far less desirable than the sky crane.


The drop-bounce-roll landing (MER, MPF) is also unfeasible as we don't have any cloth - for airbags - that could withstand the impact of a metric ton hitting the ground.

CPDick
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
CPDick   8/3/2012 11:41:33 AM
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I gather that they never actually tested a prototype of the 'crane' concept on Earth! That shows an incredible confidence in software!

I presume the fact that there are 8 rockets (2 in each corner?) indicates that there is redundancy in each corner, so only 4 actually need to work. It is going to have to fire the backup really fast if one of the mains fails...

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Rob Spiegel   8/3/2012 2:10:04 PM
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Here's a great link for the Curiosity Rover. You can play a video of a simulated landing. Plus, when the rover is ready to land, you can get a live visual.

http://eyes.nasa.gov/

oldbikefixr
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
oldbikefixr   8/3/2012 6:13:52 PM
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This isn't such a far-fetched idea. It is VERY similar to the escape gantry used on all pre-shuttle manned space flights. The emergency system was designed to take a post-launch capsule to a sufficient altitude that the main parachute would function safely. This new system simply works in reverse sequence. NASA simply replaced the heavy, bulky metal superstructure with cables. So long as there are no tangles.....

Altitude is determined with a device similar to a laser range finder. At the appropriate altitude, the steps in the deployment/disengagement sequence are initiated.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Rube Goldberg??
Rob Spiegel   8/2/2012 10:21:30 AM
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This is gong to be fun to watch, once the rover is safely down. This lading sounds quite a bit different from the rover landing in the late 1990s, when the rover was enclosed in a big ball that bounced on the surface and then opened once it came to a rest.

apresher
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Power of Virtual Worlds
apresher   8/2/2012 5:30:07 PM
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Excellent article, Beth.  It's amazing the power of simulation, and this is an extreme example of when it becomes almost a necessity.  Thanks.

ChasChas
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Trigger
ChasChas   8/3/2012 11:33:04 AM
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Beth, do you know what kind of ambience on Mars is sensed to trigger these events properly?

tekochip
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Dust is an Issue?
tekochip   8/4/2012 8:54:22 AM
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Doesn't Mars frequently have huge dust storms?  Why would they design a craft that is sensitive to dust, that's like sending a probe to Earth that's sensitive to water.

bobjengr
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ROVER
bobjengr   8/4/2012 1:12:00 PM
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 I had forgotten we are this close to the landing.  I think your great article is a "shining" example of how our country leads the world relative to engineering talent.  We have the best schools, the best teachers and great opportunities to demonstrate engineering talent and resourcefulness.  My great disapointment is our abdication of the manned programs and the loss of talent that will surely follow.  Let's hope this landing is a total success.   

j-allen
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Re: ROVER
j-allen   8/4/2012 1:32:37 PM
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At one time we did have the best schools, the best innovation, etc.  Many of the senior scientists and engineers on this project were products of that period.  Unfortulantly, according to every objective study, competitive exam, and evaluation, the US can no longer make such boasts.  Our students lag behind even some formerly "backward" countries in math and science.  The number of college grads per-capita, especially in science and engineering, has also fallen behind much of the world. 

People who continue to make such jingoistic claims based on long-faded laurels demonstrate that we lag behind the rest of the world in honesty as well. 

bobjengr
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Re: ROVER
bobjengr   8/4/2012 3:43:43 PM
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J-Allen,  I'm going to overlook the fact that I have been called less-than-honest.  If you evaluate our top engineering schools, and I do that on a regular basis, you will find that we do rank equivalent to those top schools in other parts of the world.  NOW, I will admit, the caliber of student we send to those schools is dropping year by year.   This is THE reason my wife and I have sent our three boys to private schools.  The public educational system in this country is horrible, at best, and our  so-called  public servents don't really seem to worry that much about it.  We are creating a class structure in this country which does worry me.  I have a public education all the way--K through graduate school but then again, I'm 70.  Things change. I read on a continuing basis the back-and-forth with our school boards, unions, teachers, etc and it is truly regreatable.  I feel the answer is let's once again put the students first and the politicians last --- or at least close to last.  Just a thought.

 

j-allen
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Re: ROVER
j-allen   8/4/2012 5:15:48 PM
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You are correct that American universities are still top notch, and they still attract the most talented students from here and abroad.  That, however, was not the assertion in your comment.  Also, I did not mean to impugn your honesty.  I regret any suggestion that could be read that wa, especially now that you have clarified your position so well.  I intended only to challenge those who, through blind nationalism, continue to insist that the US is "the best in the world" on every count.  Here, too, some of the tortoises have overtaken the over-conficent hare. 

I certainly agree with you that our country should put much more of its public resources into education and research, both pure and applied.  We can regain our former leadership, but in order to do so we have to recognize the areas in which we have fallen behind.  BTW, I am also about your age--69. 

 

bobjengr
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Re: ROVER
bobjengr   8/5/2012 2:22:20 PM
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J-Allen,  I agree completely and you are correct in that my origional statement was definitely not worded to indicate the basic issues we have as a country.    I should have done better up front.   I worry that, as a country, we have lost interest in those STEM courses that you and I "grew up on".  I was absolutely amazed at the level of competence relative to our space program in those early years.  Now, we seem to be comfortable in letting others take the lead.  I think it all goes back to the level of prepardness at the secondary level.   Over the years I have done work with several universities and have gotten to know professors overseeing projects.  They indicate to me that the number of remedial courses necessary for in-coming freshmen have increased significantly due to necessary.  More and more freshmen simply can't do the work at the university level.   Your viewpoint is definitely a valid one.    Many thanks..Bob J. 

William K.
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Curiosity Rover simulated landing.
William K.   8/4/2012 9:59:40 PM
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This is when we find out if the simulation madel was correct. That will either demonstrate the validity of thye methyod, or the incompleteness of the model. We shall see what happens.

Dave Palmer
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Re: Curiosity Rover simulated landing.
Dave Palmer   8/6/2012 8:36:49 AM
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Looks like the model was good.

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Curiosity Rover simulated landing.
Beth Stackpole   8/6/2012 11:49:14 AM
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@Dave: I know. The model was valid and the mission a success so far. Apparently, from reports I've read, there was lots of nail biting during that seven-minute silence, but the rover's somewhat outlandish design proved to be what was required for such extreme circumstances.

 

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
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Congratulations to NASA
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   8/6/2012 1:07:44 PM
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Looks like they made it! Sincere Congratulations to NASA, (in light of the hollow acknowledgment from the President).  Article indicates they still want to take (up to several weeks) of test evaluations before they actually embark on the terrestrial journey.   See:  http://news.yahoo.com/mars-rover-curiosity-nears-break-landing-attempt-002742981.html

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Congratulations to NASA
Beth Stackpole   8/7/2012 8:59:20 AM
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FYI: Statement by the President on Curiosity Landing on Mars

(Taken from NASA Web site: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/obama_statement_curiosity.html)

I thought it was a pretty ringing endorsement of the work that NASA has accomplished. Just saying....



Tonight, on the planet Mars, the United States of America made history.

The successful landing of Curiosity – the most sophisticated roving laboratory ever to land on another planet – marks an unprecedented feat of technology that will stand as a point of national pride far into the future. It proves that even the longest of odds are no match for our unique blend of ingenuity and determination.

Tonight's success, delivered by NASA, parallels our major steps forward towards a vision for a new partnership with American companies to send American astronauts into space on American spacecraft. That partnership will save taxpayer dollars while allowing NASA to do what it has always done best – push the very boundaries of human knowledge. And tonight's success reminds us that our preeminence – not just in space, but here on Earth – depends on continuing to invest wisely in the innovation, technology, and basic research that has always made our economy the envy of the world.

I congratulate and thank all the men and women of NASA who made this remarkable accomplishment a reality – and I eagerly await what Curiosity has yet to discover.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Congratulations to NASA
Ann R. Thryft   8/9/2012 3:50:39 PM
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Thanks for posting the Prez's message here, Beth. This really says it all.

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Congratulations to NASA
Beth Stackpole   8/10/2012 8:02:11 AM
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I didn't want to turn it into a political hot potato, but on a related note, it seems that NASA and the space program in general is enjoying a big resurgence thanks to this successful landing. I read some really uplifting accounts of the years of work and then there's "Mohawk guy," the real-life Bobak Ferdowski, among those at the helm of mission control for the Curiosity landing and the new breed of NASA engineer who's quite a bit different than the suits of the past. Ferdowski is now an Internet darling and is widely being credited with helping make space exploration and STEM education "cool."

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Congratulations to NASA
Ann R. Thryft   8/10/2012 12:25:14 PM
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I think it's great that NASA is getting good press again and, of course, doing stuff to deserve it. I guess I think of that as a positive image for science and space exploration, but not as political.

William K.
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Curiosity Rover simulated landing.
William K.   8/6/2012 8:21:12 PM
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YES!! The design, the model, the testing, and the actual hardware appear to be validated. Great work from a team of great minds. I am really impressed that a scheme as complex as this one worked so well. There were quite a few places where being foo just a bit would cause a failure, but it seems that everything worked as planned. 

Now they have something more to brag about. Right On.

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