HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Blogs
Engineering Materials

Slideshow: New Carbon Composites for Volume Car Production

NO RATINGS
View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
Page 1/3  >  >>
Mr. Wirtel
User Rank
Gold
Re: Cool
Mr. Wirtel   4/29/2014 11:36:29 AM
NO RATINGS
  I do not understand the persistance of the myth that automobile manufacturers design cars to fail. I am not aware of any manufactured good, from any source, made out of any material that lasts forever. In the case of motorized vehicles, many times they are traded in simply because the owner just wants a change. I look around my house and see that I no longer have the same furniture, dishes, appliances, flatware, ad infinitum, yet I am told that the reason I no longer drive my 56 Chrysler is because it was designed to be disposed of and replaced. What about everything else. Is that all some sort of master plan as well? Even stones eventually wear away from weather, but cars are supposed to last forever.

  As far as the acceptance of composites goes is it not possible that many times it is just appearance and feel. I am a fisherman and love the lightness and action of my composite rods, but just do not care for reels of the same construction. I am sure they perform well, but I do not like the look and feel.

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: CARBON COMPOSITES
Ann R. Thryft   4/15/2014 12:03:34 PM
NO RATINGS
bobjengr, you're certainly right about the amount of R&D and testing that's gone into all these carbon composite materials. I think we're approaching what market analysts like to call an inflection point, aka a tipping point, where several factors come together very quickly to send a technology over a hump and into the next stage, usually one of very fast expansion and wide adoption.
To me, it's interesting that a parallel move is going on with 3D printed versions of the (more or less) same stuff.

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
CARBON COMPOSITES
bobjengr   4/14/2014 7:46:34 PM
NO RATINGS
I think these developments are very significant due to RoHS requirements and bio-degradable needs developed by the EU.  I am positive a great deal of R&D went into formulation of the material composites and testing relative to application needs.  Lighter yet stronger are definitely desirable if achieved at a price point that can be absorbed AND deliver a payback relative to the investment.  Again, we see this technology is evolutionary as opposed to revolutionary.   Great post Ann.  Thank you for keeping us informed. 

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Cool
Jerry dycus   4/11/2014 1:14:37 PM
NO RATINGS
That '10%' comes at a great cost and is only of the unibody part.  But of the whole velicle you have to double + the price for 20 less pounds.  Sorry but those pricepoints for CF just don't work in cars.

Vs medium tech composite that costs l0% of a similar CF unit that weighs 50% less than a steel or alum one.  Which do you think will actually get built for regular people?  If CF units don't get built because too expensive, how will they help CAFE?

But wouldn't a 50% weight medium tech car that costs less to build as a steel one sell much better, have a bigger effect on CAFE?

And the CF advantage depend on getting the layup right as any mess up of too much resin, etc kills the advantage of lighter weight, no?  Thus why Boeing trashed  $1billion of CF parts for the 787, No?

 

 

greg
User Rank
Iron
Re: Cool
greg   4/11/2014 11:42:05 AM
NO RATINGS
once again, that is incorrect. a carbon bike frame gets damaged, you repair it. turns out that carbon fiber lends itself to repair much more than metal frames. you can repair the local area instead of the entire tube.

calfeedesign.com
spydercomposites.com
concept2composite.com

racecar chassis can often take repairs as well. this is besides the fact that the type of crash that damages one would have destroyed a steel spaceframe. keep in mind that the crash stuctures are separate, bolt-on parts, as they should be.

quotefrom http://www.sauberf1team.com/en/car/technology-materials/

"Their extremely high strength means that monocoques provide drivers with maximum protection even in major accidents. Because the fuel tank is also contained within the monocoque, dramatic accidents involving fires are a thing of the past. After a crash, the safety cell can almost always be repaired."

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Cool
Ann R. Thryft   4/11/2014 11:34:08 AM
NO RATINGS
To the contrary, a 10% savings in weight is a very big deal right now to car makers with the ongoing pressure of meeting CAFE standards.



AREV
User Rank
Gold
Re: Cool
AREV   4/11/2014 9:32:11 AM
NO RATINGS
Good points all. The company that invests in new materials and processes may come out the winner. With carbon bikes if the frame is cracked you purchase a new one. If a race car is in a wreck you replace it. If your car is stressed it has to be replaced. So what? So out of all the cars made some are wrecked and replaced instead of everyone being repairable and most being destroyed when by obsolensce and normal wear and tear (and rust) render it unusable or desirable. Weight iand impact work against carbon fiber. so design out the weight and put on the tallest - not wide - wheels possible and maybe only three to eliminate 1) the weight of the forth and 2) the suspension dynamics that the forth creates. Oh, but you could only haul one person in a three wheeler, okay most of us travel most of the time solo. Cars were a cool oddity in 1900, never to totally replace horses. Transportation need a fundamental shift today that may be as big as the introduction of the model T. Engineers should lead the way. Get marketing and accounting out of the way for a while.

AREV
User Rank
Gold
Re: Cool
AREV   4/11/2014 9:32:09 AM
NO RATINGS
Good points all. The company that invests in new materials and processes may come out the winner. With carbon bikes if the frame is cracked you purchase a new one. If a race car is in a wreck you replace it. If your car is stressed it has to be replaced. So what? So out of all the cars made some are wrecked and replaced instead of everyone being repairable and most being destroyed when by obsolensce and normal wear and tear (and rust) render it unusable or desirable. Weight iand impact work against carbon fiber. so design out the weight and put on the tallest - not wide - wheels possible and maybe only three to eliminate 1) the weight of the forth and 2) the suspension dynamics that the forth creates. Oh, but you could only haul one person in a three wheeler, okay most of us travel most of the time solo. Cars were a cool oddity in 1900, never to totally replace horses. Transportation need a fundamental shift today that may be as big as the introduction of the model T. Engineers should lead the way. Get marketing and accounting out of the way for a while.

greg
User Rank
Iron
Re: Cool
greg   4/11/2014 2:45:06 AM
NO RATINGS
William K,
you are so off the mark. many bicycle frames and wheels are made of carbon fiber. this includes mountain bikes, cross-country, enduro, downhill, and everything in between. they are extremely tough when designed right, even on impacts. some of the most impact resistant wheels for mountain bikes are carbon. and guess what? when they do yield, they dont "shatter". you get a small crack, which often takes weeks or months to even be noticed, much less make any difference. their structural performance far exceeds what can be made of the best aluminum alloys, steel, titanium, magnesium...

not all carbon fiber is brittle. some of the higher modulus fibers are, especially pitch-based fibers. others are high-resistance. you could tie them in a knot.

f1 and other motorsports crash structures are made from carbon fiber. these are FIA mandated parts, standardized with known properties. they could make them out of any material and require them to be used. they are made of carbon fiber.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Cool
William K.   4/10/2014 8:41:37 PM
NO RATINGS
J.D. One other place where a carbon fiber composite material presents a real challenge is in a high performance bicycle frames and wheels. They are probably fine for racing on smooth tracks and such, but in the real word bikes get abused by the places that they are ridden, and sometimes they bend a bit.A steel bike can be bent back into reasonably close shape right on the trail, while if a carbon bike did ever bend a bit it would be broken and need to be carried out, since it would probably not be rideable. And carbon fiber rims would be even worse, since not only would they break under impacts that would simply bend the steel rim, but they would be totally unfixable. Once again, smooth track racing only.

Page 1/3  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Engineering Materials
NASA's MAVEN spacecraft has entered Mars' atmosphere, carrying instruments to help Earthlings figure out what happened to it. Launched last November, the spacecraft arrived at the red planet right on time after a journey of 442 millionmiles.
More bioplastic materials have entered the 3D-printable filament fray. These PLA formulations reinforced with wood or bamboo fibers will debut at the October Composites Europe show in Germany.
Airbus Defence and Space has 3D printed titanium brackets for communications satellites. The redesigned, one-piece 3D-printed brackets have better thermal resistance than conventionally manufactured parts, can be produced faster, cost 20% less, and save about 1 kg of weight per satellite.
At IMTS last week, Stratasys introduced two new multi-materials PolyJet 3D printers, plus a new UV-resistant material for its FDM production 3D printers. They can be used in making jigs and fixtures, as well as prototypes and small runs of production parts.
GE Aviation not only plans to use 3D printing to mass-produce metal parts for its LEAP jet engine, but it's also developing a separate technology for 3D-printing metal parts used in its other engines.
Design News Webinar Series
9/25/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
9/10/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/23/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/17/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Oct 20 - 24, How to Design & Build an Embedded Web Server: An Embedded TCP/IP Tutorial
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Next Class: October 2
Sponsored by Altera
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service