HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Blogs
Engineering Materials

Slideshow: Carbon Composites for Cars Get Tougher & Faster

NO RATINGS
Page 1 / 2 Next >
View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
Page 1/2  >  >>
Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Technical data
Ann R. Thryft   11/21/2013 12:15:48 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks, Chuck. I couldn't have done it without all the good input from Dow Automotive. They've been out there, along with Ford, at the head of the pack in this application.



Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Technical data
Charles Murray   11/20/2013 7:13:36 PM
NO RATINGS
The technical data in this article and these slides is outstanding. Nice job, Ann.

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: All of the effort on composites
Ann R. Thryft   11/7/2013 2:30:45 PM
NO RATINGS
j-allen thanks for the example. Of course, the car companies, and the materials companies, have done much more sophisticated calculations, in combination with a lot of experimentation with different types of composite manufacturing techniques. Because this is about a lot more than a materials shift; it's about how to integrate the manufacturing of a new material into a highly automated, high-speed process.

j-allen
User Rank
Gold
Re: All of the effort on composites
j-allen   11/5/2013 9:35:39 PM
NO RATINGS
Let me illustrate the point with a simple calculation.   Say a car has a life of 100,000 miles and gets 33 miles/gal.  If gasoline is $3/gal It will therefore consume about 3000 gallons or $10,000 worth of fuel in its lifetime.  If carbon fiber construction can improve the mileage by 10%, then it would just pay (break even) to spend an extra $1000 to do so.  If the improvement is greater, or the cost of the carbon fiber less than postulated, then the substitution is clearly justified, or conversely. 

I have used simple, arbitrary numbers here just to demonstrate how the calculation might work.  I have also omitted the subtle points like cost of investment, and the less quantifiable social and environmental value of saving 300 gallons of gasoline. 

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: All of the effort on composites
Ann R. Thryft   11/5/2013 6:39:46 PM
NO RATINGS
j-allen, I'm not sure who you were replying to, but yes, the strength-to-weight ratio is one of the major draws to replacing metals with carbon composites, and that ratio is also superior compared to glass fiber composites. Predictions about how much fuel saved merely by replacing metals with carbon fiber have already been done, although right now I forget when and where that info resides. You can probably find out by googling. The big drawback is still manufacturing/assembly costs, which are still too high to justify the material costs. A much larger supply, big enough to feed the huge automotive market, would of course change that picture.

j-allen
User Rank
Gold
Re: All of the effort on composites
j-allen   11/4/2013 5:31:25 PM
NO RATINGS
Please see my comment which addresses exactly your point.  (Posted before I saw yours--sorry.)

j-allen
User Rank
Gold
Automotive carbon fiber.
j-allen   11/4/2013 5:28:47 PM
NO RATINGS
It seems the main advantage of carbon fiber composites over conventional materials (including fiberglass composites) is their strength-to-weight ratio.   Therefore it would be good to predict how much fuel one would save over the life of the vehicle, and whether this would justify the added cost (obviously considering, too, the externalities associated with the fuel). 

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: All of the effort on composites
Ann R. Thryft   11/4/2013 1:27:36 PM
NO RATINGS
GTOlover, you nailed the supply problem. The auto industry is well aware of the issue, which we discussed with Ford here: http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=249597&page_number=2

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: All of the effort on composites
Ann R. Thryft   11/4/2013 1:23:05 PM
NO RATINGS
Lou, there's a lot of effort in the US, UK and Japan to get carbon composites in high-volume automotive applications. Here's a roundup I did last year describing some of these R&D efforts: http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1392&doc_id=244093

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: All of the effort on composites
Ann R. Thryft   11/4/2013 1:22:03 PM
NO RATINGS
TJ, thanks for the comment: I agree, that was mind-boggling. However, a Japanese company, Teijin, achieved less than one minute a couple years ago: http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=230298

Page 1/2  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Engineering Materials
As the 3D printing and overall additive manufacturing ecosystem grows, standards and guidelines from standards bodies and government organizations are increasing. Multiple players with multiple needs are also driving the role of 3DP and AM as enabling technologies for distributed manufacturing.
A growing though not-so-obvious role for 3D printing, 4D printing, and overall additive manufacturing is their use in fabricating new materials and enabling new or improved manufacturing and assembly processes. Individual engineers, OEMs, university labs, and others are reinventing the technology to suit their own needs.
For vehicles to meet the 2025 Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, three things must happen: customers must look beyond the data sheet and engage materials supplier earlier, and new integrated multi-materials are needed to make step-change improvements.
3D printing, 4D printing, and various types of additive manufacturing (AM) will get even bigger in 2015. We're not talking about consumer use, which gets most of the attention, but processes and technologies that will affect how design engineers design products and how manufacturing engineers make them. For now, the biggest industries are still aerospace and medical, while automotive and architecture continue to grow.
More and more -- that's what we'll see from plastics and composites in 2015, more types of plastics and more ways they can be used. Two of the fastest-growing uses will be automotive parts, plus medical implants and devices. New types of plastics will include biodegradable materials, plastics that can be easily recycled, and some that do both.
Design News Webinar Series
12/11/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
12/10/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
11/19/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
2/25/2015 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Jan 26 - 30, IPv6 for Micros – Hands-On
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  67


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Last Archived Class
Sponsored by Stratasys
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2015 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service