HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Blogs
Engineering Materials

Slideshow: Anatomy of a Composite-Heavy Jetliner

View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
Page 1/3  >  >>
William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Paint?
William K.   1/13/2014 6:21:12 PM
NO RATINGS
At one time corrosion was a problem with some composites, and so they had to be painted. The corrosion was quite different from what we see in metal, and it surprised a few people. In addition the assembly of composite structures is different from the metal ones, just look at the stress/strain curves. Sort of like bolting to plate glass. It can be done quite well if you do it exactly right.

Of course another very smart move is keeping the production of those things relatively in house, because a lot of the Boeing problems were from outside suppliers.

It always pays to learn from other peoples mistakes, and that certainly holds true with batteries. Of course there may be alowances made for a future upgrade, which would not be mentioned until it was ready to happen.

kenish
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Paint?
kenish   12/12/2013 2:16:34 PM
NO RATINGS
You beat me to explaining why composites need to be painted.  American Airlines planes were unpainted aluminum for decades.  I recall it was more maintenance intensive than paint, but the weight savings paid off and surface drag of polished aluminum was similar to paint.  The one exception was their Airbus A300's.  The grain orientation was different in the various fuselage skins and the planes were painted gray to avoid a "quiltwork" appearance.  The latest AA color scheme is gray across the entire fleet to get ready for the 787 which must be painted.

The illuminated tail is called a "logo light" and greatly improves visibility of the plane.

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: COmposite jetliner
Ann R. Thryft   6/10/2013 1:39:25 PM
NO RATINGS
patb2009, composites have saved lots of weight which is why they've been used in military aircraft for decades.
http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=235863
Yes, they're difficult to recycle, but efforts are underway to solve this problem by the time it becomes an issue for commercial aircraft.
http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=235280
And the lightning strike problem is not a problem anymore. See slide 2 of this slideshow for one method and this article for others
http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1392&doc_id=253665
Design News has covered these subjects extensively: see the list of related posts at the end of the article, or search our site on 'composites'.

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
COmposite jetliner
patb2009   6/7/2013 10:15:35 PM
NO RATINGS
1) To date, Composite materials haven't produced much net weight reduction compared to

metal.  While in test coupons, Carbon Fiber and Kevlar have fantastic S/n curves compared

to Al or Fe, in actual design, the parts tend to weight just as much and have unpredictable failure modes.  Maybe Airbus has cracked it (No Joke intended), but they've also

lost birds to composite failures.

 

2) Composites are difficult to recycle at end of life. An aluminum airplane is shredded

and made into lunchboxes, a composite airplane is toxic waste.

 

3) Have they solved the lightning strike problem and NDI problem?

 

 

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Paint?
Ann R. Thryft   6/5/2013 8:02:52 PM
NO RATINGS
Chuck, I'm reasonably sure your tongue is planted solidly in your cheek, right?



Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Paint?
Charles Murray   6/5/2013 7:12:30 PM
NO RATINGS
I can't help it -- I like engines. I'm thinking of buying an old GM small block for my garage, just to look at.

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Paint?
Ann R. Thryft   6/5/2013 1:13:54 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks, Chuck. I actually liked many of the other photos better: the ones showing different components under construction or being tested.

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: COMPOSITE-HEAVY
Ann R. Thryft   6/5/2013 1:12:54 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks, bobjengr. I have no idea what aircraft makers can deduct on their corporate tax statements. I have a tough enough time keeping track of what I can deduct on mine as an individual ;-)

Regarding battery types, that's a good point: commercial jet makers have a completely different set of liability problems from makers of military jets, satellites, or space station components.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Paint?
Charles Murray   6/4/2013 8:02:24 PM
NO RATINGS
Great slideshow, Ann. A photo of a huge jet engine will always be cool, no matter what the aircraft is made out of.

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
COMPOSITE-HEAVY
bobjengr   6/4/2013 5:52:20 PM
NO RATINGS
 Excellent slide show Ann.  The video was cool also.  OK--I'm going to ask an "off-the wall" question.  Can these airlines deduct from their expenses logo-types as advertising?  Even a percentage of the cost to paint and maintain the exterior?  I have always wondered if this can be done.  While in the Air Force, we pondered paint vs. no paint as far as extended range. (Of course this was long before "stealth" was a priority or even possible.) As far as battery type, I think you go with tried and proven if there is any possible issue with liability or in-flight damage.

Page 1/3  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Engineering Materials
In this second materials slideshow from NPE2015, we've got some plastics that vendors were showcasing, including products made with them, and others that were brand-new introductions at the show.
Instead of sifting through huge amounts of technical data looking for answers to assembly problems, engineers can now benefit from 3M's new initiative -- 3M Assembly Solutions. The company has organized its wealth of adhesive and tape solutions into six typical application areas, making it easier to find the best products to solve their real-world assembly and bonding problems.
Many of the materials in this slideshow are resins or elastomers, plus reinforced materials, styrenics, and PLA masterbatches. Applications range from automotive and aerospace to industrial, consumer electronics and wearables, consumer goods, medical and healthcare, as well as sporting goods, and materials for protecting food and beverages.
Engineers trying to keep track of the ever-ballooning number of materials and machines for additive manufacturing and 3D printing now have some relief: a free searchable database with more than 350 machines and 450 different materials.
At JEC Europe Dow Automotive introduced a new ultra-fast, under-60-second molding cycle time for its commercial-grade VORAFORCE 5300 epoxy resin matrix for carbon composites. It's aimed at high-volume automotive manufacturing.
Design News Webinar Series
3/31/2015 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
2/25/2015 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
12/11/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
12/10/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Mar 30 - Apr3, Getting Hands-On with Cypress’ PSoC
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  67


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2015 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service