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Engineering Materials
Long-Range EV Has Motors in its Wheels
8/23/2012

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The key material in the SIM-WIL's in-wheel motors, DuPont's Zytel HTN polyphthalamide (PPA), is used in the motor bobbins shown here. The material is stronger, lighter, and more cost-effective than what it replaces. (Source: DuPont Performance Polymers)
The key material in the SIM-WIL's in-wheel motors, DuPont's Zytel HTN polyphthalamide (PPA), is used in the motor bobbins shown here. The material is stronger, lighter, and more cost-effective than what it replaces.
(Source: DuPont Performance Polymers)

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pkoning
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Silver
Re: Motor for more mileage
pkoning   9/4/2012 9:38:46 AM
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I don't remember speaking of efficiency.  But electric drive efficiency is pretty high; there's not much margin between today's numbers and 100%.  The area for improvement is in batteries; the problem there is that it's not clear how.

As for control, what's the problem?  For starters, each wheel wants to have torque delivered to it.  Then you can look at traction control (anti-skid) which of course is inherently a per-wheel activity; conventional cars have to approximate that because they have centralized drive, and per-wheel drive makes it much easier.

If you're not doing traction control, the whole thing is trivial.  Consider that electric trains (the motor car style) have had per-wheel drive for close to a century.

Mydesign
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Platinum
Re: Motor for more mileage
Mydesign   9/4/2012 1:17:41 AM
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1 saves
Pkoning, am first time hearing about vehicle with motor on wheels and I don’t know how centralized control is possible for all independent motors. Any idea? Why you are telling that efficiency is not going to change-any particular reason.

Jeff Martin
User Rank
Silver
Re: Novel design approach
Jeff Martin   8/28/2012 4:18:08 PM
NOT a novel design approach...not even close!!!   About 115 - 128 years off.

 

The first electric car hub motor was patented in 1884.  In 1897 Ferdinand Porsche had an electric wheel hub motor "race car" that had a top speed over 65mph! There were over 300 of these fast electrics built and they were all sold to wealthy customers.  The only novel approach I can see with this new electric car is that it is using a new type of plastic for the bobbin.

Below are some pretty interesting info:

In 1914 a Detroit Electric went 241 miles on a single charge setting a new record!

In the 1900's there were over 300 electric car companies with more than 30,000 electric cars on the road.

The first powered taxis in New York were all electric,.

The fastest race cars in the late 1890's were electric.

 

ScotCan
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Re: Motor for more mileage
ScotCan   8/27/2012 3:25:54 PM
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Wikipedia has an extensive overview of the subject including power limitations, maximum allowable speeds etc...the following reproduced FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California

ScotCan
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Platinum
Re: Plastic body
ScotCan   8/27/2012 3:14:55 PM
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Unfortunately when it comes to putting things together on the shop floor or getting things from an outsourced location a whole lot of things can go wrong. Military aircraft and smaller aircraft built around composites are entirely different from commercial aircraft carrying a large number of passengers. Boeing's Dreamliner had its share of manufacturing problems significantly related to composite glitches and although most of them were dispositioned by the Liaison Engineers there are (inevitably) those which are still lurking in the aircraft...that's also a fact. Aluminum structure problems are generally self evident....composite problems are subtle but still there. My associates and I like composites....in their place...but there are things that do go wrong which don't cause grief in aluminum structures....just ask any stressman.

Rob Spiegel
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Blogger
Re: Motor for more mileage
Rob Spiegel   8/27/2012 3:04:14 PM
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Do you know if many of these vehicles are available in the United States. Sound like a great alternative to an energy guzzler for around town errands.

ScotCan
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Motor for more mileage
ScotCan   8/27/2012 2:59:37 PM
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In Quebec and Ontario they are regarded as power assisted bicycles limited to a maximum speed of 20mph and must have the pedals attached. The rider must wear a DOT approved helmet but there is no requirement for a vehicle licence, driver's licence or insurance. Since they are regarded as bicycles they can be driven anywhere a bicycle can be driven. Recharging a 48VDC system takes 11 cents of hydro and depending on use may take place every third day. They are ideal for shopping and general tootling around town.

Rob Spiegel
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Blogger
Re: Motor for more mileage
Rob Spiegel   8/27/2012 2:34:32 PM
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Interesting, ScotCan. Are these vehicles legal on the road? On bike paths? I would think these would be ruled by state regulations, each of which would be different. I'll bet there is very little energy consumption with these vehicles.

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Plastic body
Ann R. Thryft   8/27/2012 12:04:59 PM
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Carbon composites have been used in aircraft for decades, beginning with the military, and anything going into the construction of commercial aircraft has very strict specifications and requirements, including extensive testing on the ground and in the air. That's all fact. So is the conductivity of metals such as copper and aluminum. Carbon composites can be, and are being, designed with specific electrical properties to handle lightning strikes. Clearly, whether conductivity is a problem or not depends on how the materials and components are designed.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Motor for more mileage
Rob Spiegel   8/27/2012 11:50:17 AM
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J-Allen, when I was a kid there was still a variety of materials in cars. I remember the wood-paneled station wagons that were popular with surfers -- called woodys.

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