HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  RESOURCE CENTER  |  INDUSTRIES
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
Blogs
Engineering Materials

Joining Techniques Critical to Auto Composites

NO RATINGS
< Previous Page 2 / 2
View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Adhesives: How long will I be "stuck on you"?
Ann R. Thryft   8/28/2012 12:54:10 PM
NO RATINGS
A lot of research has been done on structural adhesives, as we've covered here http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=237011 and here http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=236816 Fabrico, which doesn't make adhesives, but uses them assembling all kinds of structural components, has articles and a Q&A on many of these subjects here http://fabricoforum.com/2012/06/structural-adhesives/

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Adhesives: How long will I be "stuck on you"?
William K.   8/23/2012 9:39:49 PM
NO RATINGS
It certainly is a valid question, adhesive lifetime, and how does one speed the aging process so as to find a correct answer? And the very important question is how reliableare the bond lifetime results? Many adhesives primarily fail through long term creep type of fault, while in others t6he ridgid bond becomes brittle and does not stand up to shocks. Two different failure mechanisms, it seems. And he experience of how things stick to a composit is not the level that we are looking for.  So the solution is to understand the failure mechanism, and use that information.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
Rob Spiegel   8/23/2012 1:43:31 PM
NO RATINGS
Ttemple, it sounds like there is an good long track record on the adhesives, at least a couple decades. So, while these adhesives may be new to the auto industry, they seem to be well tested in aerospace.

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
Ann R. Thryft   8/23/2012 12:07:51 PM
NO RATINGS
ttemple, thanks for telling us about your direct experience. Anything going into the construction of commercial aircraft has very strict specifications and requirements, including extensive testing on the ground and in the air, and everything is 100% traceable. Whether structural adhesives or fasteners are used in a particular part of the plane depends on several factors, but stresses in aircraft are much more extreme than in cars.

ttemple
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
ttemple   8/23/2012 11:45:53 AM
NO RATINGS
Rob,

I would say around 1996 or so.  They were manufacturing the (Kingair?)"1900D" heavily at that time.  It says on wikipedia that the 1900D was introduced in 1991, and produced through 2002.  I'm sure that many 1900D's are still in use as regional commuters.

I don't know when they started using adhesives though.  The part I remember specifically was the window attachment to the fuselage skin.  There was sort of an aluminum porthole looking piece that was glued to the fuselage.  The joint had the appearance of a weld, and it held together like it.

I think they use adhesives in the wing compartments too, at least in the areas where there is going to be fuel stored.  The adhesives seal the compartments, I think.  They also use special fuel resistant coatings on the skin inside those areas.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
Rob Spiegel   8/22/2012 4:18:20 PM
NO RATINGS
That's very encouraging, Ttemple. Was that a number of years ago? I would guess if adhesives had any durability problems we would know by now. In manufacturing, I would think using adhesives is more efficient than welding.

ttemple
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
ttemple   8/22/2012 3:59:10 PM
NO RATINGS
I did some work at Raytheon (Beech) quite a number of years back.  They routinely used adhesives to bond aluminum aircraft parts together.  The parts were also riveted (sparingly), but the engineers referred to the rivets as "chicken rivets", because they insisted the glue was more than strong enough. Supposedly the FAA wouldn't let them get rid of all of the rivets.  I don't know how it ages, however.  We had to disassemble some of the parts that were glued, and the aluminum would tear before the glue would let go.  As I remember it, the stuff was basically inseparable.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
Rob Spiegel   8/22/2012 3:34:10 PM
NO RATINGS
That link gives good information on adhesives, Ann, especially in the area of the advantages of adhesives over fasteners. 

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Will adhesives hold over time?
Ann R. Thryft   8/22/2012 3:27:18 PM
NO RATINGS
These are structural adhesives, and many of them are being adapted from aerospace applications, where they've been used with composites for some time. We covered structural adhesives here
http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=237011

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Will adhesives hold over time?
Rob Spiegel   8/22/2012 1:22:20 PM
NO RATINGS
Fascinating story, Ann, on how to join materials that can't be welded. One thing that gives me pause is that as they develop appropriate adhesives, it will still only be a guess on how the joining materials will hold up after 20 years. Only time will tell whether the adhesives will hold the car together over decades.

 

Partner Zone
More Blogs from Engineering Materials
Inspired by the hooks a parasitic worm uses to penetrate its host's intestines, the Karp Lab has invented a flexible adhesive patch covered with microneedles that adheres well to wet, soft tissues, but doesn't cause damage when removed.
Engineers at the University of California, San Diego are designing a robotic arm that takes inspiration from the loose, flexible, yet very strong structure of the armored plates on a seahorse's tail.
Researchers at the Missouri University of Science & Technology have designed a new nanoscale material that can transmit light faster than the 186,000 miles per second it usually takes to travel through air.
It has often been said that as California goes, so goes the nation. This spring, the state's wind power is setting energy generation records and solar energy generation is expected to rise sharply during the second half of 2013.
The latest model of Liquid Robotics' Wave Glider autonomous, unmanned marine vehicle (UMV), the SV3, is reportedly the world's first hybrid wave- and solar-power-propelled unmanned ocean robot.
Design News Webinar Series
5/15/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/1/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/22/2013 9:00 a.m. California / 12:00 p.m. New York / 5:00 p.m. London
5/29/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Blogs from Our Sponsors
From Dell / Intel®
New Paradigms in Design Work
Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013    3
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
From Dell / Intel®
Increased Workstation Performance Is as Easy as 'DPPO'
Trey Morton, Dell, 4/25/2013    2
I've been using workstations for more than 10 years and love finding ways to get more performance from my system. With demanding professional applications that require more power each ...
From Dell / Intel®
Taking Some of the Grit out of Manufacturing
Kirsten Billhardt, Manufacturing Industry Marketing Strategist, Dell, 3/26/2013    5
A lasting memory from my first job as an engineer in an auto assembly plant is standing on hard concrete at six in the morning, vending-machine coffee clutched in hand, listening to ...
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
May 20 - 24, Automation Technologies & Trends for Smarter Homes & Buildings
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3


DN Radio
Sponsored by
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
A quick look into the merger of two powerhouse 3D printing OEMs and the new leader in rapid prototyping solutions, Stratasys. The industrial revolution is now led by 3D printing and engineers are given the opportunity to fully maximize their design capabilities, reduce their time-to-market and functionally test prototypes cheaper, faster and easier. Bruce Bradshaw, Director of Marketing in North America, will explore the large product offering and variety of materials that will help CAD designers articulate their product design with actual, physical prototypes. This broadcast will dive deep into technical information including application specific stories from real world customers and their experiences with 3D printing. 3D Printing is
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2013 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service