Simple Question: What’s a System?

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Simple Question: What's a System?
jburhoe   6/23/2014 1:25:17 PM
Dear Rich
In your article, "Simple Question: What's a System?" you presented several answers to the  question, "What is a system?"  It strikes me that all of the answers really gave the same concept, even if they worded it differently.
Dave Heacock gave perhaps the most succinct answer, "When I think of a system, I think of a series of items that work together to solve a problem or perform a function."  (Italics mine). 

For example a mousetrap is a system. If you take away any of its components, the base, the spring, the bait, the swinging arm etc, the mouse trap won't work. All of the components have to be present for the mousetrap to catch a mouse. Also, these components must be assembled correctly. Simply stacking these components one on top of the other will not let them work together.

 Tom Connelly said " a combination of components that work together .. to achieve or produce something. Same concept as Dave's.

 Mark Minnichelli said, "... a group of individual components which combine/interact to perform a specific function" This is the same concept as Dave, just worded differently.

 Chris Loberg said, " ... system is something that processes an input, and produces a result."  I doubt that he was thinking of something as simple as a stick that we kick. (The input is our kicking the stick. The stick 'processes' the input by moving, and perhaps poking a hole in something.)  I would infer that Chris was actually thinking of some multi-component device, such as a computer [whose components work together] to produce a computed result or output.

 Scott Hibbard commented, "a systems designer as one who take sub-systems ... to integrate them." Again, there is the concept of a series of items that work together (integration)...

 Ken Karnofsky, " ... A system is an entity,... Specifying the behavior of individual components is insufficient to determine the behavior of the whole."  Again, there is the concept of a number parts that must work together.

 Mike Campbell speaks, "A System is pretty vague, .. system engineering is the early part of the process after requirements have been understood  ... this is where mechanical, electrical, and software design activities begin... . Again, this definition requires that a series of components [mech. elect, and software] must work together to do a function (the requirements).

 I wonder if Mr. Campbell's concern about the vagueness of a definition for a system came from the fact that he was inter-mixing the concept of complexity with the definition of a system.

 As an aside, if we go to the concept of complexity, complexity is the qualitative concept that has to do with the number of interactions within a system. A mousetrap is relatively simple, as it has less than maybe a dozen components. A rocket ship is very complex, as it to do with many more components, and many more laws of nature, all interacting with each other.

 Such is the engineer's concept of a system.

 Before departing from the concept of a system, there is another, broader, definition for a system. "A collection of parts that are related somehow." For example the solar system. Although the parts (ie planets) do not work together per se, they are all held in place by the sun, and their gravitation pulls do influence each other to varying degrees.

 The engineer's system is a sub-set of this definition, i.e. the components are related in that they must work together to do a function.


 Here two last questions for you,

Does it take intelligence to create complex 'engineering' systems?

Does it take greater intelligence to design more complex systems?


Charles Murray
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What's a system?
Charles Murray   6/13/2014 5:50:18 PM
I use the word system a lot. I always think of it as as assembly of parts. I guess the next question should be, "Whats a part?"

Cabe Atwell
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Re: 'System' needs common denominator simplicity
Cabe Atwell   5/31/2014 12:25:02 AM
A system is defined by the job being performed. I'm typing this on my desktop computer system. Then again, I sometimes find myself fighting the system and in some cases, throwing a wrench in the system. Now I'm confused.

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Re: 'System' needs common denominator simplicity
tluxon   5/30/2014 12:16:03 PM
Ever read a dictionary?  The definition I offered came right out of one.  Good luck with your ideal to make nothing look like jargon to anybody - there's no such end.

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Re: The System
a.saji   5/30/2014 5:57:28 AM
@Battar: The word System has so many definitions. It contains many variations and caters different purposes. A complex system indeed

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Re: 'System' needs common denominator simplicity
a2   5/30/2014 2:41:27 AM
@tulxson: Simple for us but if someone tries to look it from outside then it is jargon for them 

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Re: The System
RICKZ28   5/29/2014 1:24:17 PM
When I was a teenage boy working part-time so I could afford some nice things, it was popular to ask the other guys to see their "system".  The term system was automatically known to be one's music sound system (girls tended to have all-in-one cheap systems).  The systems were put together with a variety of electronic items called "components", including a (central) receiver (sometimes separate amp and tuner), turntable, cassette deck, equalizer, and speakers.  Some even called their multiple different speakers their "speaker system".  We guys took great pride in having a high-quality system that we could listen to music and show-off to friends.

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'System' needs common denominator simplicity
tluxon   5/29/2014 1:02:02 PM
The term ''system'' comes from the Latin word systēma, which is described as being ''whole compounded of several parts or members''.  I know that sounds very broad, but as Engineers we're supposed to be keeping things simple, aren't we?

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The System
Battar   5/29/2014 9:32:03 AM
A system is anything for which you can't be bothered to find a meaningful definition.

Often it's just an appendage to make a product seem more sophisticated - a "home theater system" is just a higher priced "home theater" for axample. (I wrote "theater" rather than "theatre" out of respect for non-true English speaking American readers)

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Re: Keeping Everyone on the Same Page
fm   5/29/2014 9:04:27 AM
@Nancy, i completely agree that every conmpany's definition of "system" is different; you can't assume that you understand what it is just by walking in the door. It calls for lots of questions and a fair amount of time. And that definition will change depending on who you talk to *within* a company.

The way i've always understood a system is that it is completely defined by where you draw the boundary. As an example, to a mechanical engineer a "system" could be an automobile and the driver and pedestrians are the environment of the auto. However, to human factors engineers the "system" could *include* the driver, and the city/country/wherever is the environment. OTOH, to municipal planners, the "system" can include the auto, the driver, pedestrians, roads, and parking.

It's tough to give an exact definition to "it depends." In reality, we are trying to define something that in itself is a definition!

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