HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  RESOURCE CENTER  |  INDUSTRIES
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
Blogs
Sherlock Ohms

Botched Construction Job Leads to Finger Pointing

View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
Page 1/2  >  >>
Tool_maker
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Finger Pointing 101
Tool_maker   9/17/2012 12:57:22 PM
NO RATINGS
I could not agree more. I used to build what I now design and have found both engineers and mechanics who are incapable of performing their assigned jobs if there is not someone there to hold their hands. The bigger the project or organization, the more likely these guys are to slip through the system and ride their way to retirement on other people's coat tails.

Tool_maker
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Experts!
Tool_maker   9/17/2012 12:45:11 PM
NO RATINGS
There were two additonal factors not noted above: 1) In the construction, the two rods were offset in a common block instead of inline. Then the load was side thrust as well as tension pull. 2) The people on the catwalks were dancing. Therefore when keeping time with the music all dancers feet were impacting at one time which greatly increased the dynamic load. Anyone who has ever marched across a suspended bridge understands the meaning of this and knows why the Rout Step command was issued, Once the bridge was crossed evryone was again put in cadence.

ab3a
User Rank
Gold
Finger Pointing 101
ab3a   9/12/2012 7:12:11 AM
NO RATINGS
I have worked on both sides of this problem, as both a field technician and as a registered professional engineer.

This problem cuts both ways. Experienced field installers know that there are some engineers who rarely get away from their cubicles. These installers don't have time to get in to a war of words with someone who doesn't know the situation on the ground; so they deviate from the design.

This is why we have "As-Built" Drawings.

Sometimes, however, the installer did not understand what the Engineer was asking for. It used to be that a phone call from the job site was expensive. Well, that's no longer true. I always recommend communications. If the installer didn't plan a few phone calls in the schedule for the work they bid, that's their own fault.

rdelaplaza
User Rank
Silver
What about the LAW and depending HUMAN LIVES
rdelaplaza   9/12/2012 3:50:36 AM
NO RATINGS
All this regulations and licensing is worth... you name it.

This guys LICENSE should have been SUSPENDED immediately; their previous jobs INSPECTED for SAFETY. and recertification should have been a MUST for ALL responsible parties in that JOB.

HUMAN LIVES depend on this kind of SHODDY jobs.

That is why there are LAWS, REGULATIONS and INSPECTIONS, preventing Stupid, Lazy or Ignorant BOZOS from doing jobs where human lives are in DANGER. and PROTECTING the SAFETY of everyone.

TJ McDermott
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Experts!
TJ McDermott   8/24/2012 2:10:10 AM
NO RATINGS
RPCY, the original design wasn't even marginal; it was able to hold only 60% of the minimim load required by the city building code.  The bad choice for redesign meant the 4th floor structure would hold only 30% of the load required by the city building code.

The original design wasn't strong enough, required rediculous threaded lengths, and was poorly considered because the rods passed through the welded joint of two C-channels (making a rectangular tube).

The deformations of the 4th floor beams is just plain scary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse

There was plenty of blame to be shared by almost everyone for this.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Botched construction job.
William K.   8/22/2012 10:29:52 PM
NO RATINGS
My experiences with assorted contract installers have mostly been negative. Some of them got all of the connections correct but wasted huge amounts of wire, others have made errors in labeling wires, so that each end had a different number, one time a panelman skipped one terminal, and so half the wires were one terminal over from where they should have been. 

I have been fortunate that when it came to working on live systems I was able to do that myself, since I could move a bit slower and be more careful than the people eager to finish and leave for the next job.

Fire panels are unique in that they are indeed supervised, and that does add a requirement to accomodate the supervisory function. Mostly that calls for careful attention to polarities and diode directions, so it is not hard, but tedious.

Thinking_J
User Rank
Platinum
Can not control (influence?) all the variables
Thinking_J   8/22/2012 4:52:29 PM
NO RATINGS
A Classic example...

You (your company) has control of everything going into a product. That is where the limit of your responsibility (should) end.

If that product requires other "professionals" to correctly install / operate it... you no longer have any direct control. And you should no longer have any responsibility.

Unfortunately, that isn't the way our legal system works.

Have numerous examples of similar screw ups by other "professionals" involved in installing/maintaining systems.

Education, certification of skills, etc.. will mitigate some of this. But it will not eliminate it.

 

TexasTJ
User Rank
Iron
Re: Experts!
TexasTJ   8/22/2012 1:30:03 PM
NO RATINGS
Interesting comment about Ft. Hood.  The last company I worked for got the contract for some expensive custom products (to protect the guilty, I won't say what) that were going onto some buildings that were being decomissioned.  I got the job to do the design work and enjoyed it.  But I had to demonstrate that  it would work before the Army Corps of Engineers would allow us to install.  While they were in our prototype lab, I asked what I thought was an innocent question, "Why were they installing this very expensive equipment on buildings that wouldn't be used."  They glared at me and said they had budget money to use up.

As an aside about the Army Corps of Engineers, I had found a substantial technical flaw in their standard bid document for our type of products.  I wrote a letter to Huntsville, AL (pre-email days) detailing the problem.  About a month later, I received a letter back stating that I was correct and they would update their documentation.  Eight years later, when I left the company, we were still getting the erroneous bid requests.

campdavid
User Rank
Iron
BOTCHED CONSTRUCTION JOB
campdavid   8/22/2012 1:05:50 PM
NO RATINGS
THE FIRST THING I SUGGEST IS THAT YOU FIND OUT IF THE CONTRACTOR IA LICENSED AND CERTIFIED TO WORK ON FIRE ALARM/RELEASING PANELS. REQUIRED IN MOST STATES. A RANK BEGINNER SHOULD KNOW THAT ANY INPUT "ABORT" IS LOOKING FOR A CONTACT CLOSURE AND OPERATES IN THE MICRO OR MILIAMP REMGE. BY TIEING IT TO THE NOTIFICATION CIRCUIT YOU ARE DUMPING 1 AMP IN TO THE CIRCUIT. SO FAR AS INDICATED YOU HAVE BEEN LUCKY THAT THE ELECTRONICS HAVE NOT BEEN FRIED. FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR LIABILITY ON THIS PROJECT YOU SHOULD COMPLETELY TEST PANEL WHEN THE PROJECT IS DONE.

rpcy
User Rank
Iron
Re: Experts!
rpcy   8/22/2012 9:49:16 AM
NO RATINGS
You're thinking of the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse in Kansas City MO, 1981. The original engineer's design was workable but marginal, calling for two suspended catwalks to be suspended from the same 40-ft threaded rods. When the builder got to that part of the construction, he balked at threading nuts and washers 20 feet onto each rod, so he made what he thought was a reasonable compromise: he'd use two 20 foot rods instead of one 40 foot rod. The top catwalk would hang from the ceiling, and the bottom catwalk would hang from the top catwalk. He ran this proposed change past the inspectors, the chief project engineer, and a few others, and they all approved the change. I use this example sometimes when talking to validation crews, because you don't have to know anything about civil engineering to realize that if the joints where the top catwalk transfers its load to the rod was workable in the original design, you now have two catwalks hanging from that stress point. Nobody seemed to realize this. And even at twice the weight, the joint held when first constructed. It was only when the catwalk was filled with holiday revelers that the joint finally failed, crashing the lower catwalk to the ground, and the upper one pancaking onto it. The contractor's original bonehead error managed to sneak by several other engineers and get approved. It is not clear that the original architect/engineer was ever consulted on this change -- you'd think that if anyone would have picked up on this gaffe, it would have been him/her.

Page 1/2  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Sherlock Ohms
The light amid darkness increased suspicions. A secret power source was the answer.
At the battery factory, a number of things can go wrong, from lousy suppliers to oddball crimping.
The recording device failed when it heard a loud, screeching voice.
The radio station couldn't keep its clock synchronized. Apparently, the power company was goofing up the time.
The cooling system on the space transmitters ran into problems from metallic goo. Someone improvised a mess.
Design News Webinar Series
5/15/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/1/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/22/2013 9:00 a.m. California / 12:00 p.m. New York / 5:00 p.m. London
5/29/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Blogs from Our Sponsors
From Dell / Intel®
New Paradigms in Design Work
Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013    3
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
From Dell / Intel®
Increased Workstation Performance Is as Easy as 'DPPO'
Trey Morton, Dell, 4/25/2013    2
I've been using workstations for more than 10 years and love finding ways to get more performance from my system. With demanding professional applications that require more power each ...
From Dell / Intel®
Taking Some of the Grit out of Manufacturing
Kirsten Billhardt, Manufacturing Industry Marketing Strategist, Dell, 3/26/2013    5
A lasting memory from my first job as an engineer in an auto assembly plant is standing on hard concrete at six in the morning, vending-machine coffee clutched in hand, listening to ...
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
May 20 - 24, Automation Technologies & Trends for Smarter Homes & Buildings
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3


DN Radio
Sponsored by
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
A quick look into the merger of two powerhouse 3D printing OEMs and the new leader in rapid prototyping solutions, Stratasys. The industrial revolution is now led by 3D printing and engineers are given the opportunity to fully maximize their design capabilities, reduce their time-to-market and functionally test prototypes cheaper, faster and easier. Bruce Bradshaw, Director of Marketing in North America, will explore the large product offering and variety of materials that will help CAD designers articulate their product design with actual, physical prototypes. This broadcast will dive deep into technical information including application specific stories from real world customers and their experiences with 3D printing. 3D Printing is
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2013 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service