HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  RESOURCE CENTER  |  INDUSTRIES
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
Blogs
Made by Monkeys

Metal Trumps Plastic in Lawnmower

NO RATINGS
View Comments: Oldest First|Newest First|Threaded View
<<  <  Page 2/5  >  >>
ChasChas
User Rank
Gold
linkage problem
ChasChas   5/22/2012 9:50:44 AM
NO RATINGS
 

I'm okay with the plastic gear on the wheel - quiet meshing and durable.

The gears need to mesh before the power comes - a linkage problem.

Also, a spring is needed to allow for when the teeth are out of rotation for meshing before the power comes on - snaps in when the power starts.

I see a poor linkage design or it is out of adjustment. 

Contrarian
User Rank
Silver
Re: Planned Obsolescence
Contrarian   5/22/2012 9:52:51 AM
NO RATINGS

ionceownedafrontwheeldrivemowerandratherthanchewupthegearsandgetalurcheverytimeengagingthedrive,thetechniqueiusedwastopushdownonthehandleandengagethedrivewiththefrontwheelsintheair. themowerwon'tlurchthatway,itextendsthelifeofthedrivelineandyousimplycontroltheforwardmotionbypushingdownonthehandlemoreorlessgivingthedrivewheelsmoreorlesstraction. ineverhadadrivelineissuewiththemowerforthe10yearsorsoiownedit.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Planned Obsolescence
Rob Spiegel   5/22/2012 10:09:13 AM
NO RATINGS
That's pretty graphic, Armorris. I agree, the partial engagement is a very natural way of managing the speed of the mower. As a kid a mowed a ton of lawns, and you can't manage a lawn cut with a fully engaged drive (except on long straight stretches). With a fully engaged drive, you can dig ruts into the lawn when you hold back the mower on turns. So you have to slow it down with partial engagement.

armorris
User Rank
Iron
Re: Planned Obsolescence
armorris   5/22/2012 10:13:46 AM
NO RATINGS
The drive system needs some kind of a slip clutch. The teeth become disengaged well before the drive belt is sufficiently loose to disconnect the engine power. This is how the wheel teeth get chewed up.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Just poor design for higher initial profit
jeffbiss   5/22/2012 10:27:05 AM
NO RATINGS
I have a Sears reciprocating saw that failed because the drive shaft wore excessivley because the guide was not a traditional bushing, it is an iron casting, AND the manual provided absolutely no information about having to open the case and oil it (there is no oil port, so I didn't even think about it, so I'm partly to blame). And you can't get any replacement parts for any tool more than a couple of years old, I've had to make my own parts.

So, one had better take a good look at a machine before buying as the manufacturer may have been more concerned with their initial profit than the customer's long term satisfaction. And, there may be the calculation done, like Ford did, that dissatisfaction, or death, is a cost that they are willing to bear if failure is below a certain level.

BRedmond
User Rank
Iron
Self-Propelled Mower Plastic Drive Wheels
BRedmond   5/22/2012 10:56:14 AM
NO RATINGS
I've had the same problem with mowers sold by Home Depot and Toro.  The HD one had teeth on the inside of the "back" side of the rim.  The Toro I'm currently using has a gear molded into the back side of the hub.  The Toro is supposed to adjust its speed to match your walking pace.  I've never done a teardown to figure out how it is doing that.

My dad had a mower when I was a teenager where a knurled or toothed wheel engaged the tread of two tires (front or rear, I can't remember).  Pretty sure that the system was adjustable but eventually you need new tires because, again, the drive was more durable than the driven wheels.

Some of the comments seem to be talking about tractors or more industrial types of mowers.  I read this as a typical residential, walk-behind mower with self-propulsion.  Most of these don't have real speed adjustments (other than the Toro).

MaruaderMan
User Rank
Iron
Even GM got in on the act years ago....
MaruaderMan   5/22/2012 11:15:47 AM
While General Motors wasn't the first to apply plastic to a gearing system, they sure made a bundle out of it.  From about 1968 to 1976, Pontiac introduced their plastic coated cam timing chain gear.  Ostensibly, it was to "quiet down" the noise the two cam timing gears and chain made during normal engine operation.  Of course, the difference in noise could be measured in practically negative decibels.

Normal timing gear/chain lifetime used to typically exceed 100k miles - even in those days.  With the plastic coated gear, one never exceed 65k miles - if you were that lucky. and it always happened on the road and required a tow.  At least at 100k miles, you knew from experience what to expect, and premature timing gear failure was not one of them.

The replacement, whether from GM or aftermarket, was always all steel.  Gee!

Planned obsolescence?  Even back then the accountants and management were already working their magic.

By the time the NTSC got involved, it was too late.  GM had already changed back to the all-steel gears, and the gov't chose not to pursue the problem any more.

OLD_CURMUDGEON
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Planned Obsolescence
OLD_CURMUDGEON   5/22/2012 12:20:12 PM
1)  Seems to me that there should have been a two-stage linkage for the motion drive mechanism.  The one stage would force the proper engagement of the driving gears into the wheel gears, and the "feathering" for motion control should have been accomplished w/ the "pressure that the drive belt exerted on the driving shaft sheave.  Ultimately, the V-belt would have been the sacrificial element in this drive, and since V-belts are considered consumer items & consumables, they're available at a wide range of outlets including automotive stores, etc.

2)  Regarding the SEARS / K-MART alliance.  I believe that was one of the worst corporate marriages to come down the pike in many a decade.  In this Tampa Bay area, and more specifically in our immediate hometown area, we have FOUR WAL*MART outlets, within bicycling distance, and ONE SAM'S CLUB.  We also have TWO K-MART stores & ONE SEARS store.  Driving past these outlets is very revealing, and is NOT tied to time of day OR day of week.  The K-MART parking lots have a handful of vehicles parked, while the WAL*MART stores show almost full parking lots (and I'm NOT just relating at Christmas time!).  The Sears store is a general merchandise store, including an automotive service center.  Interestingly, it is located at the end of a very large mall, also populated w/ BEST BUY, DILLARDS, J.C. PENNEY, MACY*S (formerly Burdines), etc.  The parking lot area in front of the Sears store is very modestly populated.  I believe Sears would have been far better off to remain independent, while at the same time trimming their product lines to include only their "core" businesses, which are tools, appliances, & automotive accessories & light repair.

Jeff Martin
User Rank
Silver
A little more info.
Jeff Martin   5/22/2012 12:33:50 PM
NO RATINGS

I have a Toro with the variable walking speed drive.   I too have not looked at how it works, but I understand that these wheels will have to be replaced from time to time when they start slipping.  I was made aware of that fact after I bought the mower by a friend that used to work for the city and had to replace them all the time.  My drive skips on steep parts of my yard and makes a nasty sounding cogging noise.   I have not tried fixing it yet, but I am hopping they use the same wheels in the front as they do in the back.   So when my gears or cogs become worn I can just "rotate" the tires.

 

This place in MN has some pretty good prices...I just checked my price $19 per wheel!!!

 

http://www.psep.biz/

 

 

Here is a GREAT manual on Toro transmissions. 

 

http://www.amopower.com/Toro%20Lawn-Boy%20Walk%20Behind%20Power%20Mower%20Drive%20Systems%20Manual.pdf.

 

There they list the benefits of the engaging pinion drive.

 

The wheel pinion clutch has a three-fold purpose. One,

when the transmission is engaged, it causes the pinions

to move with the output shaft and drives the wheels.

Two, it provides differential action to allow easy turning

and excellent maneuverability. Three it disengages the

wheel pinions from the output shaft when the operator

is not squeezing the handle. This allows the wheels

to turn backwards without turning the gears inside the

transmission and provides low pull back forces similar to

those on a hand-push version (Fig. 136).

 

OldGeek
User Rank
Iron
Re: linkage problem
OldGeek   5/22/2012 12:57:22 PM
NO RATINGS
Dead on the money ChasChas! The gears should engage fully before the belt tightens, thus always being fully meshed before any power is applied.

The gear disengagement is necessary to allow the mower to be pushed manually.

With regard to other posts about controlling speed: I've always controlled the speed by applying downward pressure on the handle to allow the front wheels to slip. That's why they put power to the FRONT wheels!

 

<<  <  Page 2/5  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Made by Monkeys
The power windows were working as they were supposed to. That was one problem. Operator error was the other.
The brakes work just fine, but the brake sensor light has a life of its own.
After the Monkeys messed with the RF generator, it was a puzzle to get it right.
Watch out for membrane key cables that won't do their job.
All of the controls to this TV are in the remote. But the remote stopped working and the company doesn't offer a replacement.
Design News Webinar Series
5/22/2013 9:00 a.m. California / 12:00 p.m. New York / 5:00 p.m. London
5/15/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/29/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/30/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Blogs from Our Sponsors
From Dell / Intel®
New Paradigms in Design Work
Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013    5
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
From Dell / Intel®
Increased Workstation Performance Is as Easy as 'DPPO'
Trey Morton, Dell, 4/25/2013    2
I've been using workstations for more than 10 years and love finding ways to get more performance from my system. With demanding professional applications that require more power each ...
From Dell / Intel®
Taking Some of the Grit out of Manufacturing
Kirsten Billhardt, Manufacturing Industry Marketing Strategist, Dell, 3/26/2013    5
A lasting memory from my first job as an engineer in an auto assembly plant is standing on hard concrete at six in the morning, vending-machine coffee clutched in hand, listening to ...
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Jun 10 - 14, Exploring Application-Specific Programmable Logic Devices
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3


DN Radio
Sponsored by
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
A quick look into the merger of two powerhouse 3D printing OEMs and the new leader in rapid prototyping solutions, Stratasys. The industrial revolution is now led by 3D printing and engineers are given the opportunity to fully maximize their design capabilities, reduce their time-to-market and functionally test prototypes cheaper, faster and easier. Bruce Bradshaw, Director of Marketing in North America, will explore the large product offering and variety of materials that will help CAD designers articulate their product design with actual, physical prototypes. This broadcast will dive deep into technical information including application specific stories from real world customers and their experiences with 3D printing. 3D Printing is
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2013 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service