HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Blogs
Made by Monkeys

Auto Climate Control Is Backwards

View Comments: Oldest First|Newest First|Threaded View
Page 1/7  >  >>
Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Counter-intuitive design
Beth Stackpole   2/22/2012 7:00:58 AM
NO RATINGS
The Highlander is not that old a car model so this one really seems baffling. What could possibly have driven the Toyota engineering team to design the automated climate controls in that manner? If there a glitch with your particular car or is this just a greater design flaw in the model or perhaps with the Toyota car platform in general?

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Another pointless automation
Ann R. Thryft   2/22/2012 2:28:44 PM
NO RATINGS

This looks like yet another pointless automation of a car system that should always be user-controlled or at least user-controllable. My car, thankfully, is old enough that I can decide which mode I want to be in, combined with how much airflow via fan control and whether that air is heated or cooled.


antedeluvian
User Rank
Iron
Seems right to me
antedeluvian   2/22/2012 2:38:28 PM
NO RATINGS
I am only an electrical engineer, but it seems the right logic to me. Each pass through the refrigeration unit drops the temperature by say, 10 degrees so it seems to me that you can achieve a much lower temperature and much quicker than by trying to cool air at a fixed temperature from outside. Aslo if the air is humid you can remove that much more moisture by working on the same air volume repeatedly. That is how I find it most effective.

Later when cool, the switch to fresh air is necessary to allow oxygen into the cab. Secondly the air is cooled in a small percentage in comparison to the volume of the cab so th A/C can cope, but my experience on really hot days (95degF and up) is that it only really maintains the temperature at a low enough value on recirculate.

I would also be interested in the fan speed that Toyota chose. It seems to me that the air conditioning is less effective at high fan speeds. My theory is that the air does not get enough time to cool down as it passes through the refirgeration unit.

From my experience the external air in the cold is to reduce the misting of your breath. I have a problem when I don't drive very far and the car hasn't had a chance to warm up where the air condenses and then freezes on the inside of the windshield.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Another pointless automation
Rob Spiegel   2/22/2012 3:23:09 PM
NO RATINGS
Good point, Ann. I agree the automated systems may not deliver much value. I don't find it that difficult to manage the cooling and heating system in my older vehicle. There are subtleties to the system that can only be managed manually. 

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Another pointless automation
Ann R. Thryft   2/22/2012 3:43:19 PM
NO RATINGS

I agree, Rob. It's like the analog volume control knob on the stereo--sound control is an analog thing so that works better to the tuned ear than a series of preprogrammed steps. In this case, it's not linear but interactions that, apparently, require subtleties. I don't get why these functions were automated in the first place.


Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Another pointless automation
Rob Spiegel   2/22/2012 3:48:26 PM
NO RATINGS
I'm with you on the volume control, Ann. Manual control offers more subtlety. Same thing with radio controls. I found the old dial worked better than most of the digital station finders.

curious_device
User Rank
Gold
Re: Seems (not) right to me
curious_device   2/22/2012 6:02:31 PM
NO RATINGS
I have been complaining about the stupidity of late model car environmental controls for 10 years now.  I have sent detailed "bug reports" and fixes to the manufacturer only to be told that "the system is operating as designed".  Obviously the problem is that it was designed to spec without actually being looked at from a systems viewpoint.

One pervasive fault is the divergence from older manual eviro control functionality when applying microcontrollers to the task.  Older cars would handle defogging by running the AC compressor until the coil temperature approaches the freezing point where it would then cut out.  When defogging, it's critical that the compressor runs no matter what the cabin temperature setting is.  Late model cars have the AC compressor tied directly to the cabin temperature setting and sensor.  This causes the humidity that was captured during cool down to start evaporating back into the cabin as soon as the cabin hits its target temperature.  Stupid. Period.

The old method of running the compressor, condensing out humidity, while heating is the most effective way to deal with the situation.  Instead, because the new systems perform so poorly, they do things like switch to outside air to try to make up for a poorly thought out design and implementation.

Tim
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Another pointless automation
Tim   2/22/2012 7:12:10 PM
NO RATINGS
I had an Oldsmobile Achieva that had a volume control knob with ratchets on it that required pre-determined intervals ofvolume control. The best I could do was get the volume to a point that it was either a little bit too soft or a little too loud. This was just one reason that I did not care for that car.

etmax
User Rank
Gold
Re: Counter-intuitive design
etmax   2/23/2012 9:33:18 AM
NO RATINGS
Rob kindly published my views on my monkey designed Toyota a while back, and while I listed lots of issues then, I completely forgot about my climate control issues which were the same as these. It seems like they don't have someone on their design team that understands thermal management. They also didn't understand lighting, as the vehicle had 2 map lights but no light baffle between them, such that the pasenger's map light affected the driver. It also had one of those lovely sunglass holders in the roof lining that was too small for a pair of adult sunglasses.

Gusman
User Rank
Iron
Re: Seems right to me
Gusman   2/23/2012 9:39:36 AM
NO RATINGS
I agree-the logic is correct, for the reasons antedeluvian elucidated-even though his  name is mis-spelled..  Humidity control is one big reason for recirculation when beginning the process, as it is much easier to cool dehumidified air than humid, and less humid air doesn't feel as uncomfortable, leading to more comfort sooner.  This also is very important to defog the windows quicker in cooler temperature situations.  For the technical Luddites, there is always an override capability.  Undoubtedly, elements of their blood lines flamed the demise of manual spark advance and want it back!  LOL

Page 1/7  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Made by Monkeys
Made by Monkeys highlights products that somehow slipped by the QC cops.
Made by Monkeys highlights products that somehow slipped by the QC cops.
Made By Monkeys highlights products that somehow slipped by the QC cops.
Made by Monkeys highlights products that somehow slipped by the QC cops.
Made by Monkeys highlights products that somehow slipped by the QC cops.
Design News Webinar Series
10/7/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
9/25/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
9/10/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/23/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Oct 20 - 24, How to Design & Build an Embedded Web Server: An Embedded TCP/IP Tutorial
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Next Class: 10/28-10/30 11:00 AM
Sponsored by Stratasys
Next Class: 10/28-10/30 2:00 PM
Sponsored by Gates Corporation
Next Class: 11/11-11/13 2:00 PM
Sponsored by Littelfuse
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service