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Decaying Rubber Has Whistle Effect

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barry
User Rank
Iron
Re: Cracking vaccum lines
barry   11/7/2013 4:01:53 PM
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my hyundai did the same thing. it was on a weekend so i took a piece of fuel line made a loop in order to fit it in the tight space between the pcv valve and  the other nipple where hose had to go.  its still there even after a couple of years.

Amclaussen
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Cracking vaccum lines
Amclaussen   11/6/2013 1:12:14 PM
"It doesn't appear Ford has learned"...

Well, this applies not only to Ford, but to most of the car manufacturers as well.

It is a cultural matter (in the automotive industry, at least), to keep old practices as "God's words"... they tend to keep the same specs and the same suppliers even when complaints pile up. Take Toyota for example: they denied there was any problem with their unattended acceleration issues even when the death count was raising.  The fact that production line changes is a difficult matter, does not mean that the original design or specs have to be untouched forever. But that belief is taken as a undisputable matter by almost everyone inside.  To refute that approach is an almost shure way to be kicked out of the company immediatley, regardless of the truth.

Fortunately, Internet and social networks are a huge help in dealing with a "lemon" product, even when fighting with a manufacturer is still going to be a nightmare. So keep reading (and writing when you have such a case). Some day they will start to understand they still produce a lot of defective products and ignoring that isn't going to solve the real problems.

Amclaussen
User Rank
Platinum
Re: I'll be the nitpicker
Amclaussen   11/6/2013 12:57:37 PM
Too many Automatic transmissions fail just because the maintenance is not the correct one, or simply, the owner (or mechanic's shop) fails to perform ANY maintenance at all!

Even specialty shops fail too replace the entire contents of old, degraded and dirty ATF, simply because most torsion converters lack a drainage plug...  which results in more than 55% of the old fluid is kept inside the trans during the so called "ATF replacement".

In order to really get ALL of the old ATF out of the circuit, one needs to perform a complete flush.

I learned  how-to at a Mopar aficionados website ("allpar.com") where they were discussing this procedure. It involves removing the transmission pan, replacing the filter and reinstalling the pan, replacing about half the total capacity to reach the proper "cold" level at the dipstick; then you connect the line going to the trasmission cooler to a collecting container using transparent vinyl tubing, previoulsly you have marked that container at every quart. You'll also need to plan ahead, having a small table at the side of the car for putting the entire capacity of new ATF bottles already open and ready to go into a funnel put into the dipstick tube plus 4 or 5 additional quarts (to be sure you are effectively flushing the system!).  Then you start the engine in Park or Neutral, and the transmission pump starts to push out the old fluid through the line to the cooler, so be ready to start to add the new ATF bottles just as fast as the pump puts the old fluid out (that was the reason to mark the catching container at every quart. Numbering the new ATF bottles helps as it is easier to keep the ATF level close to the correct level. To actually see the fluid leaving the transmission, I put a 6" section of vinyl tubing filled with new ATF plugged with pencils at both ends next to the discarding line, and placed a white cardboard piece behind, illuminated by a strong light (a 100 W bulb) in order to clearly see how the fluid leaving the transmission goes from a dark, opaque fluid, to a clearer red, ending in a transparent cherry red, almost indistinguishable from the new ATF sample! (my cars use about 9 quarts, so at quart number 12 to 13, the color of the ATF leaving the transmission is now identical to the new ATF, signalling a complete flush.  I forgot to say that there is a small magnet placed inside the trasnmission pan, that needs to be completely cleaned, usually it should have about a teaspoonful of metallic dust attached, product of the normal wear and tear of the friction parts inside the transmission.

Performing that kind of maintenance every 30,000 to 40,000 miles is going to keep the transmission in optimum condition, as the lubricating properties of even the best synthetic ATFs starts to be lost as the fluid is "worked" and degraded by the hard work it performs every day.  Plus, a lot of dirt and metallic dust gets into the fluid. There is no "eternal" or "for life" ATF! It needs replacement and renewal. The thing is that most auto technicians simply do not want to do the above described procedure, and the car owner ends up having to replace or rebuild the complete transmission before its real life expectancy.  Don't forget to clean the exterior of the transmission cooler (air cooled ones) to keep cooling efficiency.

Considering new ATF and  filter, vinyl tubing and the effort, it is still much cheaper that having to pay 4,800 to replace a transmission, unless you make more than $4,800 for a three hour job!

 

Best regards.

cookiejar
User Rank
Gold
Re: I'll be the nitpicker
cookiejar   11/6/2013 11:31:22 AM
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Don't feel bad about your transmission experience.  My neighbor asked me to drive him to the transmission shop to pick up his 2001 Ford F350 which just had its transmission replaced.  When we got there, of the dozen vehicles there for service six were Ford 350s.    It cost him $4800.

cookiejar
User Rank
Gold
Cracking vaccum lines
cookiejar   11/6/2013 11:26:20 AM
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I have had similar experiences with cracking vacuum hoses on various Ford products I have owned. Any time their performance would suffer, I would take a hose with one end in my ear and probe the ends of the various vacuum hoses.  This routine for me has been unique to Ford products.

The classical example was a friend who purchased a Ford Pinto (yes it was a while back, but it doesn't appear Ford has learned)  from an elderly neighbor.  The car was less than a year old, (1000 miles) and was truly gutless.  It couldn't even maintain 40mph on hills on the turnpike, was hard on gas and was blackening  the spark plugs.  The neighbor couldn't get the dealer to do anything and nobody wanted to buy it, so my friend purchased it for $1,000, figuring he would replace the engine.   The elderly neighbor was grateful.

Upon examination, he noticed that the score of vacuum hoses were all cracked where they were stretched over the fittings.  For a test, he simply cut off the cracked ends and reattached them all.   Everything worked perfectly as a result.  He replaced all the vacuum hoses with non-Ford product and as they say, lived happily ever after, until the transmission started acting up.  He dropped the transmission pan and the fluid logic cover and found a small rubber ball that was deformed.  Replacing that did the trick.   Another example of Ford bad rubber which includes exploding Explorer tires that were underrated for their loads. 

Jim_E
User Rank
Platinum
Re: I'll be the nitpicker
Jim_E   11/6/2013 10:08:08 AM
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Glad to know that somebody else saw the PCV/PVC thing.  :)

Wait, I'm a moderator somewhere?  I didn't know that.  Anyways, yes, this does seem to be another situation where certain plastics just don't cut the mustard in automotive applications.  

As others have said, the parts were likely designed for a price target and associated lifespan, and us engineers don't get to make everything the way that we want it.  The vehicular environment has to be one of the toughest places for materials, considering the hot/cold cycles, vibration, exposure to the elements and corrosive fluids.

These people with long lasting transmissions make me jealous, as I'm a GM man, and our transmissions are notorius for failing.  My 2000 Silverado lost second and forth geat almost three years ago, but I'm still driving it with R, 1, 3.  It threw an error saying that the shift solenoids were bad.  I swapped them, but it didn't help.  I keep saying that I'll put a rebuilt transmission in when this one totally fails, but it keeps chugging along like a modern day powerglide, with only first and third gears....

AREV
User Rank
Platinum
Re: The old car runs better
AREV   11/6/2013 9:50:15 AM
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As a collector of old cars, '56 Thunderbird, '62 Studebaker Hawk Gt, '71 Lincoln Mk III I am amazed by the comments. Cars have never been better. Brakes that stop the cars, not just the tires, radio stations that don't fade as the day goes on, 20 miles to gallon on a car that would get 3-10 not many years ago, accident prevention as well as accident survivability, tires that are original on a car up to 80,000 miles, adaptive cuise control, anti spin technology that gives my rear wheel drive Chrysler 300 with a hemi drive on ice like a front wheel drive car, seats and carpets, steering wheels that are like new at 100 to 200,000 miles, engines that never stop, oil changes at 6-15,000 instead of 2-3,000, windows and seats that go up and down and back and forth electrically for the life of a car, windshields that don't leak ever and and the best clocks, digital and analog that work from day one to day junked. Shade tree mechanics were not a luxury they were a necessary. I like to repair my own when possible. Now my issue is finding a shop and a mechanic that can understan and repair the one instance when you do need them. I found mine, I hope you all can find yours. A real complaint of mine is where did the designers go? Until the '70s and 80s cars were works of art that were proud to be owned and shown off. Detroit and Japan have ruined the car as an extentoin of the owner. Go Chrysler at least it is domestic and you don't confuse your car cor a Ford, Chevy, Buick, Toyda, Mazda, Honda, Kia.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: I'll be the nitpicker
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   11/6/2013 9:49:15 AM
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Jim_E; doesn't this story remind you exactly of your recent post of the broken plastic worm gears on your TransAm-?  (P.S. -- I also noticed the dyslexic typo Re: PVC/PCV, but just assumed it was a poly-vinyl-chloride positive crankcase vent!)  J

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: The old car runs better
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   11/6/2013 9:43:31 AM
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This seems so similar to the recent post that Ann Thrift just made about new polymer options for automotive applications -- (Engineering Plastics Get Tough, Lightweight.  Nov 4th).  One of the Moderators (Jim_E) made a detailed comment about plastic parts failing under hood.  Seems like this example of the PCV vent is exactly the same situation. 

Tool_maker
User Rank
Platinum
Re: The old car runs better
Tool_maker   11/6/2013 6:48:32 AM
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@btlbcc: I am sure you are correct. The ethanol is deadly for 2cycle engines as it causes the oil to break down. The marinas around Table Rock Lake will not sell gasoline with ethanol and the filling stations in the area will usually carry a midgrade product without it as well.

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