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Made by Monkeys

Donít Talk About the Temperature Gap

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naperlou
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Blogger
Mind the gap!
naperlou   9/30/2013 9:48:12 AM
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Gelnn, that is an interesting story.  I was wondering, though, did he eventually talk to you, or we he gone at the end of the two days?

GlennA
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Gold
Re: Mind the gap!
GlennA   9/30/2013 8:02:46 PM
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naperlou;  The engineer never answered that question.  I was there for another week after that, and he did show me some other functioning.  The tuning took a while because the 'quality' of how small the pieces of glass had to be when shattered was partially subjective.

jmiller
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Mind the gap!
jmiller   9/30/2013 10:17:39 PM
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I wonder if this wasn't a cultural thing. I have worked with other Europeans and they tend to look at their concepts like children. And you never want to insult their idea in front of others. They take it very personally.

TexasTJ
User Rank
Iron
Re: Mind the gap!
TexasTJ   10/1/2013 9:58:40 AM
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I work for a Finnish company.  In addition to what you said, I'll add that Finns aren't a talkative bunch to begin with.

Rob Spiegel
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Blogger
Re: Mind the gap!
Rob Spiegel   10/1/2013 11:07:03 AM
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TexasTJ, I recenlty had a lengthy conversation with a Finland resident at a trade show. But the effusive conversation may have hinged on the fact that he was originally from Russa.

szyhxc
User Rank
Iron
Re: Mind the gap!
szyhxc   10/1/2013 9:55:43 AM
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My wife slumps glass in a kiln and, in that process, the warm-up rate is not at all critical for the first couple of hundered degree.  Perhaps that may have been the explanation but the resident engineer should have had no problem explaining if that were the case.

tekochip
User Rank
Platinum
Needs an Ending
tekochip   9/30/2013 11:05:46 AM
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OK, you have ot tell us more, how did it end?

GlennA
User Rank
Gold
Re: Needs an Ending
GlennA   9/30/2013 8:05:50 PM
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tekochip;  The engineer did not answer that question.  The agreement between the two companies did not last very long.  Only one tempering line was brought in, and about a year later the agreement ended.

taimoortariq
User Rank
Gold
Re: Needs an Ending
taimoortariq   9/30/2013 10:18:17 PM
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@tekochip, I am sure it did not end that well.

GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
SWAG!
GTOlover   9/30/2013 2:49:59 PM
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It is the answer when one is not given. It is as good as any other idea of why the control attempts to cycle the heaters from 70F to 200F.

My SWAG would be that the system ran open-loop until it heated to the ability of the system to correctly read the temperature.

GlennA
User Rank
Gold
Re: SWAG!
GlennA   9/30/2013 8:09:59 PM
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GTOlover;  That was the sort of answer that I was expecting.  When that answer was not offered, I had to assume the controller ignored the section of the recipe between 70 and 200 F.  The other consideration is that the oven is only 'cold' for the first run of the day.  It probably held enough heat that it didn't cool much below 200 F while in production.

taimoortariq
User Rank
Gold
reliable Oven
taimoortariq   9/30/2013 10:16:00 PM
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How did the company manage to make the product? since it had a major flaw. Are there not any operating checks in finland companies?

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: reliable Oven
William K.   10/1/2013 2:32:28 PM
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It is probably the case that the temperatures not covered were not critical at all, and that on temperature rise full heat was totaally satisfactory, and that on cooldown, once the temperature got down to 200C there was no reason to leave the heat on, just let it coast down to ambient. Sometimes it happens that those who know a process very well don't realize that the uninformed don't have a clue as to what matter and what does not matter. And 9it is quite possible that the gentleman was waiting for a response from the home office and did not dare say anything for fear of committing to make expensive changes.

It may also be that the specified range was where the accuracy was guranteed, but that the range was a bit more, but perhaps not in the 1% accuracy area. That happens also. So sometimes what the unknowing may consider a major flaw is instead a detail not worth considering.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: reliable Oven
Rob Spiegel   10/1/2013 2:40:46 PM
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William K, that's actually a very good possible explanation for the Finland guy's response. A little communication, though, would have helped.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: reliable Oven
William K.   10/1/2013 3:01:36 PM
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Rob, yes indeed. But not everybody is willing to tell others that "they have to wait for the boss to tell them" what to say. One time I was in that situation, with every member of our customers group asking me for the same "freeby."  That was a commitment that I was glad to defer, although I am certain that they felt that I was "losing face" by having to pass a sale-type of question to our sales person.

 

jmiller
User Rank
Platinum
Re: reliable Oven
jmiller   10/27/2013 8:36:41 AM
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I find it funny how engineers sometimes lose face by pushing a sales type question to a sales guy, while a sales guy is perfectly okay to push an engineering question off to an engineer.  Talk about a double standrard.  Oh well, I guess that''s what we get for being so smart.

GlennA
User Rank
Gold
process clarification
GlennA   10/1/2013 8:06:03 PM
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What I did not include was some detail on the process.  The glass was loaded to a carrier completely outside of the oven.  The carrier was moved into the oven.  The heating process ran until the set temperature was reached.  The carrier then exited the oven completely and moved into the air-cooling and tempering station.  The oven was not actively cooled between cycles.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: process clarification
William K.   10/1/2013 8:25:54 PM
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Your description of the process is quite similar to some kinds of heat treatment for metals, which I understand. So my assumption about what matters and what does not matter were fairly correct. Thanks for the additional information.

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