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Captain Hybrid
China's Electric Cars No Better Than Ours
6/6/2012

Electric vehicle sales are sluggish in China.   (Source: BYD)
Electric vehicle sales are sluggish in China.
(Source: BYD)

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Jerry dycus
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Gold
Re: Advertising costs ?
Jerry dycus   6/20/2012 10:40:16 PM
NO RATINGS
 

  Advertise?   I have people beating down my door for them as it sells itself.  I could sell 100 in a week if I had them to sell.   Other than websites no advertising other than various records, stunts to get it for free.

 But try to find startup money without giving up all control to the VC's, Vulture capitalists like those who ran Aptera into the ground, killing a great 300mpg EV/hybrid.  So I'm having to fund it myself.  My home is for sale and with that I can put it into limited production.

Mine really is just a more conventional looking version of the Aptera before the VC's got ahold of and 'improved' it to death.  Of course they took the money and ran.

Big auto would never build a 50 yr car that doesn't rust of cost much and uses common low cost parts owners can find most anywhere instead of buying them at 20x's cost most car companies charge for parts.  It's what is called disrputive technology.

GM could build their Ultralite Showcar in medium tech composites with fast exchangable rear drive units either gas or electric if they wanted which is similar to mine other than 2 more seats and 1 more rear wheel.

I started 2 front, one rear wheel MC  to beat the $10million needed to meet Fed regulations for cars that big auto uses to keep start ups from starting. But as I built, used them I came to find designed right they can outhandle most anything.

GlennA
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Gold
Advertising costs ?
GlennA   6/20/2012 10:13:03 AM
NO RATINGS
Jerry dycus;  I know this is a tangent, but what about advertising costs ?  How much would GM or Ford or Chrysler add to the pricing spreadsheet to produce the splashy advertising for your design ?

Does anyone on this blog know how much of the retail price of a car is from advertising costs ?

GlennA
User Rank
Gold
"satins deciples"
GlennA   6/20/2012 10:07:30 AM
NO RATINGS
jackiecox;  Are you taking 'man of the cloth' literally ?  Do you prefer cotton, or wool, or maybe rayon or polyester ?  Or did you mean 'Satan's Disciples" ?

I also learned computer programming in the days of punched cards.  But I was taught that proper composition, (spelling and grammar), was just as important as the idea.  And I was also taught to be skeptical of one-sided arguments, especially shrill ones.

You may find spelling and grammar unimportant, but it does tend to lead to more effective communication.  Short and concise sentences help also.  And I have made my point without you having to wade through a ton of blather.  Not that you will attach any value to this post.

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Jerry dycus   6/20/2012 10:06:25 AM
NO RATINGS
 

  My plans are for under $15k list FOB with most costs well understood.  For me it's little more than a 14' boat production wise and been producing various composite structures for 4 decades, thus I'm an old timer too.

  I can do this because most of the tech I use is 3-10 decades old thus avoid the cost of new tech.

  If done in real mass production it could sell for $11k or so.   The body/chassis materials/labor is well under $2k easily competive with steel especially as the battery, EV drive can be far smaller, saving more.  KIS  

Dave
User Rank
Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Dave   6/19/2012 7:31:11 PM
NO RATINGS
Jerry,

I guess the proof is in the pudding, as we old-timers say. Let's see what kind of pricing you can end up with. Keep the cost to the consumer at less than $30K and I will be a believer.Heck, I may buy one for myself!

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Jerry dycus   6/19/2012 6:42:21 PM
NO RATINGS
 

  Dave,  this is an example of your narrow thinking. 

   Why would one use CF?  Why would you assume one would use CF?  Or just another straw man?

 And I have a 1000lb EV sortswagon made in composites body/chassis just like the most expensive sportscars like Ferrari, McLaren except I accept a 5% weight pentalty of 10 lbs or so.  Yet my body/chassis only weighs 235lbs and easily far stronger than a steel car without using a single strand of CF vs 550lbs for a steel unibody.  And soon hopefully will be into productionm in about a yr.

With it's low CG of 8'', 4'' lower than a Corvettes, it'll outhandle 99.9% of other cars once set up.

It's also many x's more stiff than a steel car improving handling again.

So maybe you should open your mind a little.  

Dave
User Rank
Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Dave   6/19/2012 2:56:16 PM
NO RATINGS
Jerry,

  I ask that you try to design a carbon fiber car that will sell for $25,000. Good luck with that! Also, the average weight of cars in Japan is most likely far less than that of vehicles in the US, so safety records there are of little value to me. However, I am certainly a "lighter is better" advocate but I am also a realist and I can assure you that there will be no reasonably-priced 1000 lb (4-wheel) vehicles on the road within the next 10 years. Mazda is planning to introduce a new 2200 lb MX5, next year and I will be first in line to test-drive one. I am a sports car enthusiest who is also involved in manufacturing (for more than 30 years).

 

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Jerry dycus   6/19/2012 12:45:51 PM
NO RATINGS
 

  Dave, that is your opinion and have not put up anything to prove it.  You know little from your post about safety.

Since composites are 3-5x's as strong as steel/lb it really isn't hard to design one that equals a midsize car, the safest vehicle out there.

What about the Kei cars of Japan which has the lowest death rate there despite only being 1k lbs?  There are many aspects of safety which you seem ignorant of.  Maybe try learning something or ask questions instead of spouting opinions which have little facts other than bigger is better which is a lie. Afterall SUV's have about the worst death rate kind of puts your opinion where it belongs.

  At 200mph is more than a car and SUV combined speed.

  Please tell me which car hitting a 7000lb SUV head on at 120 mph closing speed will survive?  Another straw man as you have no facts.

   And I design car safety systems, You?

Dave
User Rank
Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Dave   6/19/2012 10:20:54 AM
NO RATINGS
Jerry,

Lightweight racing cars don't race against 7000 lb SUVs. When an F1 car hits a wall, it is most likely at an angle, not head-on. That wall is also not traveling at any speed (opposite direction), as would be an SUV. Again, it is very unlikely that as long as there are heavy vehicles on the road, there will be any 1000-lb cars that are considered "safe" enough to be released to the public. Ask any automotive engineer who deals with safety if you don't believe me.

jackiecox
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Incentive may not be strong enough
jackiecox   6/18/2012 9:56:53 PM
NO RATINGS
reaing your well intended suggestion i appreciate the idea, thoughts might be better read by some people if you use spell check or reread your comments before publishing, however I have come to regard the academic caste system with all its grandeur as simply academic ventures who sell trivial data to unwary students for credentials to carry on their field of study, in this our slave system where few will ever work in their field is study, eventually information educational systems will get around to several stages of speed reading, data aquisition methods, and data mining, there may be some gramarical element of education, that remains but few if any will survive in the new languages emerging s as subcultures of society somewhat merge on the one book, sorry if my inactivity to spell check or reread the data proposed here angers you but I doubt it will affect much change in the data I propose

 

 

It is ment for thse of us who are really seeking data to add frames pf reference or additional perspectives to view their interest. I am an industrial artist, I draw spontaneaouly, pretty much to scale with blocked graph paper attempting as many dimensions as I can before its just a blob, educated in the us navyin 1961, for 3 1/2 years, of schools, from age 17 in naval intel, optical instrumentation building , replacement or repair, I studied serious physicts for 6 months in tandem with available manufacturing machine shop equipment, then a one year computer school back in the day of cobal/fortran and and IBMs first generation electronic comouters 1401 systems used un conjunction with the keypunch, verfifier, sorter, collator, reproducer, accounting machines, and high speed printers or hand wired electric computers, which used the same logic, systems design, as networking enguneers do today. I got out and went to work for industrial engineering consulting firms, being far ahead of anything the academic ventures graduated,a few consulting firms led me into 14 manufacturing firms time study, methods, data development and engineering design, installing computer aided timekeeping production scheduling inventory control systems, the only thing we lacked was the led optics which came along after the silicon chip factories, which I helped setup the worlds first with Bell Nirthern who used it to replace hard wired telephone switching systems, then went into my own engineering desuign comoany, doing protopotypes for a lot of other engineering design companies ni=ot vertically integrated. I did attend MSOE, who aiuthored Auto Cad, I do work with various and assorted companies, as an independent agent, Its been decades since I did anything but setup companies, I find so-called inventions to be discoveries in a world where discovery is its own reward. The most significant discovery rests at the center of all telephone switching systems, os stacking diagonal matrices both horizontally, and vertically, integrating them into one platformn (virtual math holography) or the empirical matrix, which Watson uses in its ability to store and access infinite amounts of data to resource in finding direction given a set of variables. My perspectives are from the situations experienced over a long period of time. I read your short, virtually one liners so popular, insults with humor. and could care less about the tpos, but hey ! good luck and keep on looking over information based on its gramerical correctness required by you for data aquisition, and may you discover whatever it is your looking for on the internet, if thats why you login

 

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