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Ford Aims to Boost Fuel Efficiency With Lightweighting

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patb2009
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lighter, better,
patb2009   5/16/2015 3:24:04 AM
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lighter pays off,  shave 1000 lbs off the frame, lets you shave 200 off the engine,

which lets you shave 50 off the suspension

 

That makes the suspension better,  it makes the system better.

 

 

Jerry dycus
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Re: lighter, better,
Jerry dycus   5/18/2015 11:39:33 AM
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Almost every new model change has come in the last 3 yrs have been 10% or so lighter so not a new trend.

But better design, use of foam, medium tech omposites could cut it's weight by half!!  Not only that but cut labor, paint/body shop thus costs massively but they can't bring themselves to do that.

Next the aero quote there is no way air flowing through the body makes less drag than going around it from surface friction, intersection drag.

So mostly we have hype without even how much it weighs data.

Like the i3 that weighs more that a metal car the same size. What's up with that?  The i8 is almost as bad. 

patb2009
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Re: lighter, better,
patb2009   5/18/2015 12:15:38 PM
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"Like the i3 that weighs more that a metal car the same size. What's up with that? "

 

Battery.

 

 

Jerry dycus
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Re: lighter, better,
Jerry dycus   5/19/2015 7:19:10 AM
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Sorry but CF should cut battery weight by 50% too .

And the battery weight in the i3, about 400lbs, isn't much as eliminating thei weight above other steel ones.  So without the battery pack weight the they still weigh the same or more than a steel subcompact both are.

Vs they should weigh much less but because of very bad design, they don't. 

 

Jerry dycus
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Re: lighter, better,
Jerry dycus   5/18/2015 11:39:33 AM
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Almost every new model change has come in the last 3 yrs have been 10% or so lighter so not a new trend.

But better design, use of foam, medium tech omposites could cut it's weight by half!!  Not only that but cut labor, paint/body shop thus costs massively but they can't bring themselves to do that.

Next the aero quote there is no way air flowing through the body makes less drag than going around it from surface friction, intersection drag.

So mostly we have hype without even how much it weighs data.

Like the i3 that weighs more that a metal car the same size. What's up with that?  The i8 is almost as bad. 

przemek
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Re: lighter, better,
przemek   5/18/2015 12:46:11 PM
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"Next the aero quote there is no way air flowing through the body makes less drag than going around it from surface friction, intersection drag."

I think you are assuming equivalent cross section, but I believe they have figured out a way to open up dead space in the chassis. The air resistance is proportional to Cv*area, and Cv probably goes up a little due to the reasons you mention,  but if the area may drop significantly to offset that.

 

Battar
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Platinum
Half measures
Battar   5/18/2015 9:27:00 AM
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Reducing weight means reducing power required to meet performance, which means they can use a lower-powerd, smaller engine. But that isn't what it's about, is it? 

Citroen used composite body panels in the BX saloon in 25 years ago. 

RichardBradleySmith
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Carbon, eh?
RichardBradleySmith   5/18/2015 11:32:00 PM
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Sexy, but it doesn't recycle. Which seems to be okay for planes and sailboats but mass produced cars?

Jerry dycus
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Re: Carbon, eh?
Jerry dycus   5/19/2015 7:25:33 AM
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CF recycles into various HC's or back into resin and carbon.  Just heat to 700f to gas off the resin and CF is left.

Why would you think otherwise?

But the question is why are they using CF when medium tech compsites cost 10% of CF and are better.

They are using CF for hype to drive up the cost on purpose because they want more money and want to prove that composites are not worth it by their actions.

Fat is big auto is scared to death of composite cars as they cost so little for start up.

A composite production line costs 10% of a steel, alum one also eliminates the body/paint shops as it comes already finished. 

timbalionguy
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Other lightweighting problems
timbalionguy   5/22/2015 9:32:20 PM
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Although in general lightweighting can be a good thing, it has some other drawbacks as well.

1. Crash safety-- Unless very careful attention is paid during design, a lightweighted car is likely to be less safe in a crash.

2. Upfront cost-- Composite materials are harder to manufacture, therefore they will drive up the already high cost of vehicles, meaning most folks won't be able to afford them.

3. Repairability-- Composite parts don't bend like steel parts do, which can often be sucessfully straightened. Instead, they just break. So, a fender-bender might result in a repair many times more expensive than it would in a vehicle with metal, or less exotic plastic construction. A somewhat more major accident would total the vehicle. Combined with number 1 and 2, this would make insurance costs go up.

So lightweighting using composites has some intriguing advantages. But it might make cars only wealthy people can afford (or we will get stuck with underpowered self-driving mini-cars that absolutely no character whatsoever).

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