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Captain Hybrid

Slideshow: Lithium-Ion's Rise to Prominence

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Totally_Lost
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Re: Image problems?
Totally_Lost   4/20/2013 7:07:08 PM
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mrdon, it's more like thank god we have dedicated logic solutions available, and active software control is not always required.

The problem is, that too many designs have programmable software controls that if compromised can override safety limits in various ways ... either forcing overcharging, or forcing excessive discharge currents leading to overheating and failure.

Since most rechargable systems are plugged in over night, that invites syncronized night fires if the systems can be hacked.

For a well funded non-state actor, with long term goals, there are non-obvious ways to introduce compromized firmware, without network access.

Consider a non-state actor funding/purchasing a major code reader company, or major automotive diagnostic system company, and then spending several years undercutting the competitors for a system specifically targeting EV and EV hybrid models. With a firmware update that inserted the virus/trojan in the months prior to the planned attack, the service organizations using those tools could infect a significant percentage of vehicles, especially in areas that require emissions testing.

Consider a non-state actor purposefully placing software/hardware engineers into automotive and technology companies producing these active battery management  systems, to inject the attack even on non-field programmage systems ... a different form of jihad.

NASA and major corporations can not keep asian spies out of their R&D offices ... it's doubtful that a well planned jihad attack would have problems placing good engineers into R&D teams.

The Boston attacks this week make it pretty clear, that we are blind to those wanting to attack western interests.

There are also some significant economic incentives to this class of attacks, as it will cause a predicable significant short term marktet crash. So the non-state actor may be strictly motivated by greed.

And then again, what if it was a state actor?

mrdon
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Re: Image problems?
mrdon   4/20/2013 7:15:00 PM
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Totally_Lost, I didn't realized the complexity to charging systems and security. Thanks for the information.

mrdon
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Re: Image problems?
mrdon   4/20/2013 7:34:06 PM
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Totally_Lost, As read more into your comments on charging systems, I'm quite intriqued. Do you have any additional resources on this subject?

Totally_Lost
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Re: Image problems?
Totally_Lost   4/20/2013 8:50:10 PM
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There are several battery chemistries and construction strategies in this Li group. So far only A123 Systems LiFePO4 is proven safe to use in hostile environments. The techology was produced in the US, with key patents by A123 Systems, and significant research funded by US DOE. The Obama administration appears to support China purchasing A123 assets in Jan 2013, which is a huge mistake. China firms had been widely counterfiting LiFePO4 batteries, which had impacted A123 Systems significantly. China is picking up the patents and other assets for cheap, leaving US EV and EV hybrid makers without an economic safety net in battery techology. A vocal response might stop the final gov approvals.

LiFePO4 batteries do not produce a free oxygen at raised temps, and have very low internal resistance so they do not warm up with high currents like other Li-Ion or Li-Poly batteries. They can also be crushed, shorted, and do not just explode or create O2 driven fires as the other batteries do.

There is a lot published about Li-Ion and Li-Poly fires. Google is your friend here. There is a lot of field data from the RC Airplane and car industry about failures leading to explosions and fire. There is also a lot of field data from explosions and fire in the Phone, Notebook computer, and other portable devices.

A lot of people believe that failures can be controlled with good battery management. What we do know is that metal crystal growth thru the separator, will sooner or later cause a short and fire, for a significant number of batteries already deployed.

While this "risk" is managable on a small scale, it becomes frightening on a large scale. Especially when failures with fires can be caused fairly reliably ... like overcharging without a reliable external thermal shutdown.

So as the power supply cap's in your embedded design degrade, and the microprocessor is no longer stable ... is it safe to let software sample charge voltages and temps, and be responsible for turning of the charge enable MOSFET? .... I don't think so.

mrdon
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Re: Image problems?
mrdon   4/20/2013 10:49:59 PM
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Totally_Lost, Good information with detail explanations: I love it! Thanks!

Nancy Golden
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Re: Image problems?
Nancy Golden   4/21/2013 10:15:49 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree with you, Rob. I appreciated the slideshow and from a consumer's standpoint - I have no problem with lithium-ion batteries in electronic gadgetry. But you simply can't convince me that it would be safe to drive a car with lithium ion batteries. Not only do you have the increased volatility that comes with that chemistry, but the cars themselves are smaller. In a crash, small cars are simply not as protected as big cars. When it comes time for my fifteen year old to drive - you can bet you will find a lead acid battery in his car - and it will probably be my 1997 Chevy Lumina LOL

far911
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Re: Image problems?
far911   4/22/2013 2:08:44 AM
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Lithium-Ion primarily gained recognition from portable consumer electronic appliances. No doubt the technology is great, but I'm curious about why L-Ion batteries don't perform well on laptops. The battery life span on laptops is usually only 1-1.5 years. 

William K.
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Re: Image problems?
William K.   4/22/2013 10:53:07 AM
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The addition of malware to charging system control software is a very disturbing possibility, and unfortunately one that would be quite a challenge to defend against. The problem is made far worse by the attitude of many in our country that "none of our enemies are really that bad", which results in not taking threats very seriously. Consider the recent bombings at the Boston Marathon as an example. I had not considered intentional malware in the battery charge system code as a potential means of atteck, but it certainly could be. The method of preventing the possibility is through using exclusively electronic means, avoiding the use of software in the charge control system. Not nearly as cheap and easy, but much more secure.

William K.
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Re: Image problems?
William K.   4/22/2013 10:57:41 AM
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The gasoline in the fuel tank is a much greater crash hazard and would be capable of nearly instant damage, as opposed to the battery pack, which would take much more time to heat up and start a fire. And I am not aware of any automotive or aviation battery pack explosions. Gas tanks are a different story, though.

Elizabeth M
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Nice retrospective
Elizabeth M   4/22/2013 11:05:44 AM
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Interesting retrospective on a technology that has come to play such a big role in our lives now that devices are so omnipresent. Will be interesting to see where this technology goes next.

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