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Captain Hybrid
EV Battery Chemistry Could Eliminate Cooling Systems
6/14/2012

A123 Systems says its Nanophosphate EXT chemistry could be employed in large prismatic cells, like those used in electric cars, and in smaller cylindrical batteries. (Source: A123 Systems)
A123 Systems says its Nanophosphate EXT chemistry could be employed in large prismatic cells, like those used in electric cars, and in smaller cylindrical batteries.
(Source: A123 Systems)

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Beth Stackpole
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Time not on their side
Beth Stackpole   6/14/2012 7:39:55 AM
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On paper, or maybe even in limited testing, it seems like A123 has made a big leap with its lithium-ion cells in terms of reducing cooling requirements. Nevertheless, there is still a lot of skepticism that the company will have to over come. Commercializing these efforts will take a lot of time and money, which is something A123 and its battery maker competitors don't necessarily have.

naperlou
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Re: Time not on their side
naperlou   6/14/2012 8:41:41 AM
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Beth, you are right there.  Time is an issue.  It takes time to prove a technology does in practice what it does in the lab.  I think they have something here, and it is a good trend.  Let's see if investors think so too.

Jerry dycus
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Re: Time not on their side
Jerry dycus   6/14/2012 4:44:26 PM
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  First never believe anything  Pike says as they are mostly wrong. Not sure who is paying them off or if they are just incompendent.  Likely getting paid to give a customers viewpoint/bias.

  Next as an EV designer, builder and driver one should never design a larger battery pack without cooling.  Cars get 60C just sitting in the summer sun turned off.  Just ask anyone in the south.

   EV's shouldn't have more than 100-150 mile range as after that a ICE generator is far more cost effective and gives unlimited range.  All my EV's have or will have a 40lb generator giving unlimitede range. 80 mile range is probably the sweet spot.

A123's have so little resistance they put out huge amounts if specific power with little heat generation.  I agree this is just a small improvement mostly gained by higher battery weight/kwhr.  This means more material though as they said, Iron, alum, Lithium, plastic, etc is cheap with most under $4/lb and averaging about $6/lb.  Most Lithium batts are about 22 lbs so it's just not that costly.

I buy complete A123 battery pack systems/BMS, etc for about $700/kwhr custom made from cylinder cells that can and has done 170mph and 7.9sec 1/4 mile though that was recently broken to 200mph and 6.9sec EV  IIRC.

Mydesign
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Better yield from lithium Ion batteries
Mydesign   6/15/2012 3:28:25 AM
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Charles, from user point of view they are bothered about price and output power, irrespective of cooling system. Any R&D for a better yield from lithium ion based batteries. I think if cooling system is removing from Electric vehicles; the cost can be brought down considerably.

Mydesign
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Re: Time not on their side
Mydesign   6/15/2012 3:32:16 AM
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"EV's shouldn't have more than 100-150 mile range"

Jerry, that's one of the major drawback for all Electric vehicles. I have an EV, which yield only 80-90 miles for a full charge. So am not able for any ride outside my local circle. So I think much R&D has to happen for a better yield battery.

Jerry dycus
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Re: Time not on their side
Jerry dycus   6/15/2012 12:41:12 PM
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  No it's a drawback for your EV because it's not being used properly and likely not designed well.  Many solutions available below.

  Your EV is likely too heavy and not aero enough for an EV.  Pure EV's should be used for regular commuting, etc within their range which should be figured out before one buys an EV to make sure it meets your needs.

Don't you take advantage of charging stations or opportunity charging?   Here in Tampa there are a good number of free chargers at malls, downtown, etc.  Plus many places like gas stations will let you charge.  Most parking garages have 120vac outlets you can use.

I also have permission to charge at libraries, 7/11's, CVS among other places. Remember there are 5 billion or so outlets one can charge from if 120vac can be used.

Many charge up at work so a full charge when heading home.

    Why don't you buy or have a generator built to give yourself unlimited range?  You only need 5kw or so depending on what EV you have.

There are many solutions, just pick the ones right for you, your area.  If you were running out of gas you'd get refilled, no different with EV's.  And there are apps for that for your smart phone.

My present EV only has a 40 mile range on battery but unlimited range with either a generator or charging stations depending on trip needs. I don't own any other vehicles but EV's.  

 This summer I expect to travel at least to Washington DC with my newest EV, a 1,200lb 2 seat composite body/chassis sportwagon with 100 mile battery range and a 4kw generator and lead batteries.

Be more specific on your EV, area either here online or off and I can help you solve your problem.  I'm in the phone book and online.  I like doing online so others can see how real life EV's work.

William K.
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EV batteries
William K.   6/15/2012 2:08:36 PM
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THis release is interesting. The only way to reduce battery heating for a given power level is to reduce internal resistance. Of course, that would also increase the efficiency of the system, so it would be a quite handy improvement all around. The reality is that just because something can be done once does not mean that it can be produced economically, with an adequate production yield. There may be some unanticipated challenges prior to getting into productioin. But it does sound encouraging.

Mydesign
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Re: Time not on their side
Mydesign   6/18/2012 11:32:31 PM
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"Why don't you buy or have a generator built to give yourself unlimited range?  You only need 5kw or so depending on what EV you have"

Jerry, there are options for charging, but we may not sure where the charging points are available. But in my other car, I know where ever we go there are gas stations and a full tank can yield more than 500 miles. Ok, am seriously considering your advice for a built in generator for EV as an alternate fuel source. What about sound/noise level, while in working condition.

Jerry dycus
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Re: Time not on their side
Jerry dycus   6/19/2012 8:11:41 AM
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  mydesign wrote

'Jerry, there are options for charging, but we may not sure where the charging points are available. But in my other car, I know where ever we go there are gas stations and a full tank can yield more than 500 miles. Ok, am seriously considering your advice for a built in generator for EV as an alternate fuel source. What about sound/noise level, while in working condition.'

   You do know there is an app for that, where charging stations are?   If working, being used and for how long,  ready to use   and available to reserve? Not only that but it'll tell you when charged, how much charge, etc on your smart phone.

 The only reason you don't know is you haven't looked hard.  Just google EV charging stations for those in your area and the companies that run them like Chargepoint.

As for the generator it can be as noisy or quite as you make, buy it. Certainly can be below tire noise, the biggest source in most EV's.  

 

tekochip
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Re: EV batteries
tekochip   6/19/2012 9:53:12 AM
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Is all of the heating from internal resistance or is there a chemical reaction as well?

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