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Captain Hybrid

China's Electric Cars No Better Than Ours

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Beth Stackpole
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Blogger
Re: Electric Bicycles?
Beth Stackpole   6/7/2012 8:57:24 AM
@tekochip: I've seen a bunch of reports on the soaring use of electric bicycles in China along with Europe and the rest of Asia. Here a link to an article chronicling the trend from the New York Times, albeit several years back. I don't have a sense if the EV car craze cut into their popularity of if they are still widely used.

apresher
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China's Electric Cars
apresher   6/7/2012 9:05:06 AM
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Beth, The use of electric bicycles is an interesting insight.  It makes sense that it could be making an impact on the adoption of electric cars. Thanks for the link.

tekochip
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Platinum
Re: Electric Bicycles?
tekochip   6/7/2012 9:20:02 AM
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Thanks for the link Beth, that was a good article. I put an ebike together a few years ago and use it for commuting. While the bicycle purists at the office sneer at me for using an ebike, I don't see any of them using a regular bicycle for commuting either. The little motor makes the bike practical for commuting because you don't show up at the office needing a shower, and you'll still use the ebike on a windy day when you would avoid using a straight pedal bicycle. Yes, you still have to pedal an American ebike, but the motor will flatten the hills and always turn the winds in your favor.  It cost me about $500 for the parts required for the conversion and I broke even on expenses the first year.


Noswad
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Gold
E-cat
Noswad   6/7/2012 9:30:21 AM
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The E-cat will change everything. The battery concept is a waste of time. Some form of chemical reaction in a small container will be the answer to our energy problems.

If given a chance then LENR will be the future of energy production. Our way of thinking has to change. The old ways of using combustion type engines and generators needs to come to an end and start thinking outside of the box for newer radical ideas.

We need a modern day Tesla to step forward and to present their ideas.

naperlou
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Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
naperlou   6/7/2012 9:59:08 AM
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MyDesign, that is called life cycle cost.  For an automobile used for normal consumer use (which means lots of variability) the gasoline engine still has the lowest lifecycle cost for moderate time frames.  Depending on the hybrid and the price of gasoline, it may take 3 to 5 years to recover the cost of the hybrid.  At least with the hybrid you have the same flexibility as a standard gasoline vehicle. 

Droid
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Platinum
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Droid   6/7/2012 10:11:11 AM
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Seems the whole "green" industry is infested with companies trying to make products which don't make economical sense.  No doubt the reasons for this are varied - depending on which industry we are talking about.  This article was only discussion the one corner - we could probably say similar things about solar, wind, biofuels - and the list goes on. Companies in these markets absolutely need to find ways to make their products viable economically. What's particularly aggravating is the fact that government money (our tax $$$) is being poured into these ventures only to have them fail.  Even the Chinese commies realize that it's hard to fight against market forces and the economic needs of consumer.

As very simplistic example - My garage has a hot air solar furnace which I built for cheap.  This might cost about $300 using retail purchased goods. Mine was build for less because I'm a scavenger.  A similar unit at northerntool.com is priced at around  $1400.  Quite frankly my heater works ok but not great  However, I wouldn't even consider buying the $1400 retail model because payback would be so poor.

Dave
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Gold
Re: Overpriced, tech EV's
Dave   6/7/2012 10:26:15 AM
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1000 lb composite cars would most likely not pass any safety standards, thus, the overweight vehicles we have now.

By the way, a while back, Consumer Reports ran an article about the quickest-payback hybrid and they specified the Toyota Camry hybrid (at only $2000 more than an ICE Camry) paid for itself in as little as a couple of years (if I recall correctly). Hybrids are the way to go right now, not pure electrics.

Sport
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Silver
Re: Incentive may not be strong enough
Sport   6/7/2012 10:37:12 AM
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I don't think I believe in the oil company conspiracy just yet.  Not that it couldn't happen.

In my feeble opinion, the fundemental problem with EV is the battery.  It takes (x) energy to move (y) mass from point (a) to point (b).  The amount of energy stored in a gas tank far exceeds the energy stored in any comparably sized battery, even given the relatively low efficiency of the ICE. (Less than 40% at best).

Batteries need to have a technological break through before they compete well with the ICE.

EV's are also not the "Green" device eveyone is hoping for.  The power used to charge them comes primarily from coal fired plants.  I also expect to see a lot of battery components in land fills in the next few years as these batteries out live their usefulness.  I don't really know how much will be mitigated in the recycling process.  Not to mention all the environmental damage done in the REO extraction process.

Sport
User Rank
Silver
Re: E-cat
Sport   6/7/2012 10:48:26 AM
E-cat,  I wouldn't recommend that we bring the ICE to an end till we have something to replace it with.  That doesn't exist yet.

Also that chemical reaction in a small container you refer to is called a battery.

Another might be the fuel cell where hydogen and oxygen combine to form water and generate electricty.  There are variations on this theme where methane is used to supply the hydrogen instead of pure hydrogen.  None of these are zero emmission if you follow the entire supply chain.

The real goal is a zero greeen house gass emission source.  What ever that may be.

NadineJ
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Platinum
the high road not taken
NadineJ   6/7/2012 10:53:44 AM
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I appreciate the subject of the article and love the comments but the quality of the article is troubling.  From the title on, it has a very "neener-neener" tone.

If the article just covered developments in China without the "no better than ours" appraoch, it could have been a more informative.

Kudos to all of the comments so far.  The subject of electric cars seems to be polarizing and stimulating here at times.

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