Captain Hybrid

EV Battery Report Says Costs Going Down

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Charles Murray
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Re: Political hot button
Charles Murray   4/11/2012 8:39:58 PM
I should add that while I believe that delivery trucks will be the primary market, I'm not as optimistic about 2X range and 50% cost. The ace-in-the-hole, though, is the Envia battery, which is under development in conjunction with General Motors. If the Envia battery is successful, then your numbers will be right on target.

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Nissan LEAF owner
Mark-In-Seattle   4/13/2012 10:33:09 PM
Just currious if any of the commentors currently own a production EV or have a friend with one ?


My wife and I own two ICE vehicles (can't yet bare to part with my beloved 1997 XJR) and a wonderful Nissan LEAF all-electric.   It is fun to drive, with a surprisingly enjoyable acceleration curve; constant from any starting rpm and costs us $2.10 in electricity per 100 miles here in the NW.   Since late May 2011 we have logged 7700 miles in the LEAF and 3 tankfuls of gasoline in the Volve S80 (3/4 tank in the XJR).


It is already eminently practical for us right now and cost less than the Volvo S80 which we purchased new several years ago.  Nissan is rumored to have the lowest EV battery cost per KwH in the industry, perhaps 1/2 their closest compeditor and the warranty for 80% charge retention is 8 years or 100k miles.  Agreed it is still a bit pricey and not for everyone, especially single car households, but gosh do yourself a favor and test drive one before any detailed critic of EV viability.


Thank you.

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Battery improvement curve.
Bunter   4/19/2012 10:33:30 AM
Just a quick thought here.

I am concerned about the trend I see (largely in the media and political world) to compare battery technology development with emerging "high tech" items.

Batteries have seen a great deal of intense development for what, 200 years?  This is a very mature industry.  Could we get a breakthrough tomorrow? Sure.  Should we continue to seek one? Abosolutely.  Should we base our forward looking game plan on the assumption that this will happen?  Count me as a bit reluctant.



Charles Murray
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Re: Battery improvement curve.
Charles Murray   4/25/2012 6:18:06 PM
I agree on all counts, Dennis. The breakthrough will come eventually, but there's no guaratee that throwing money at it today will bring about a breakthrough tomorrow. It requires discovery, which can't be planned. Regarding the long history of battery development, see the link to the article below.


Charles Murray
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Re: Battery improvement curve.
Charles Murray   5/2/2012 9:27:17 PM
Bunter, you're right on the mark. In politics and journalism, people talk about the "Moore's Law for batteries," which DOES NOT exist. Moore's Law describes a manufacturing situation -- the ability to make smaller and smaller feature sizes on a semiconductor chip. Batteries, in contrast, are subject to the laws of material science. True, manufacturing will bring the costs down to some degree, but not in a Moore's Law fashion. And manufacturing will do little or nothing for energy density. To get a sense of the history, take a look at this:


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Re: Nissan LEAF owner
tekochip   5/3/2012 7:55:23 AM
Thanks Mark, there have been plenty of comments about the customer's experience with EVs, but not from somebody that actually owns one. 

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