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Captain Hybrid

Slideshow: Focus Electric Vehicle Hits Production Line

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Rob Spiegel
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Re: Sweet looking vehicle
Rob Spiegel   12/23/2011 1:53:21 PM
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That's an excellent point, Beth. And the EV makers are aware of the potential problem, so Nissan and Sumitomo have partnered to deliver a charging station that costs $9,900. According to Nissan, that's about one third the cost of the charging stations that are currently on the market. Be that as it may, I think it makes sense that an EV producer would take action to try to make the infrastructure affordable. 


Jerry dycus
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Charging scam
Jerry dycus   12/24/2011 10:10:03 AM
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    These high cost'charging stations' are a complete rip off.    They should have been just a standard RV outlet for $10 plus the box, post to put it in, on.

  But no they have to make completely new expensive units that are completely unnessasary.

My EV's don't even need 240vac as they can  charge from almost dead in 4 hrs from 120vac!!

  That's the complete problem EV's  we are getting have in a nutshell, too big, too heavy, too expensive when forklift EV drives and medium tech composites can do the same job for 50% or less!!  There is no reason a great 2 seat commuter EV can't be made for under $10k in real mass production.

  And no reason a 12.5kw charging station cost more than $200/vehicle and installation. 

jmiller
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Re: Sweet looking vehicle
jmiller   12/26/2011 10:00:39 PM
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I agree that there needs to be more focus on how these vehicles can be used pratically in smallville USA.  And I think that's where the future of inovation lies.  Whether it be in replaceble batteries that you drop off and replace at the local gas station or plugins at every parking meter.  The how to is still a little fuzzy in the electrical vehicle world.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Charging scam
Rob Spiegel   12/27/2011 7:48:23 AM
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Good points Jerry. It looks like they're building EVs for the luxury market, and thus they have add-ons that drive the cost up. Are any of the car companies building a stripped-down EV designed for city use?

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Sweet looking vehicle
Beth Stackpole   12/27/2011 8:26:56 AM
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I like both of those ideas as options for recharging. Retrofitting parking meters with EV charging outlets seems like a great idea. And the cities and towns (even my Smallville town of Newburyport has meters) could charge a premium price for those meters with charging capabilities and generate a little more tax revenue.

I would also think it would make sense to have these charging units packaged and priced as a simple extra on the total vehicle package. After all, who gets a phone or a tablet these days that doesn't come with a charging unit?

Jerry dycus
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Re: Charging scam
Jerry dycus   12/27/2011 8:45:43 AM
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       Hi Rob,

               It's the fact big auto see selling a small light EV as them not being able to sell a higher profit one. Plus they want to prove EV's are too expensive so they can keep selling all those 20x's overpriced engiine/trans, etc repair parts they make a lot of their profit from.

                 Most of my custom EV's use 25-50 yr old E motors most of the time I just clean them up and put them in as they last near forever even with their brushes, their supposed bad feature. But that feature allows 66% savings in the controller too.  

                Not that any of big auto has spent much if any of their own money to build EV's but have received over $1b in grants so really they have no cost in them, only profit. Just another thing they don't bother mentioning along with how really cheap they are paying for the batteries they use, around $250/kwhr or less.

               I got tired of waiting for them to do cost effective EV's so shortly I'll start selling plans so most anyone can have a good EV with some learning, sweat, build their own for under $2k.

              While that is happening I'll set up production lines for my composite 2-3wh ones.  The sad thing is why does it have to come down to someone like me to get the vehicles many want and need?

               They are charging what they are Because they can as no other EV's are available except some older big auto 70's/80's/90's ones and conversions, about 60k on the road of these now.

                   Why almost no other company(Tesla has) has done it is the Fed DOT rules which cost about $10 in paperwork, lawyers to get through before you can start a 4wh production line. You need at least $100MM to start one.

                   Or go my way, make rather cool 3wh cars and aero cabin MC's from medium tech  composites and forklift EV tech.

               Many have tried like Aptera where VC's came in and stole the company from the founders then tried to use it to scam others. We'll see how I do.

Jack Rupert, PE
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Re: Charging scam
Jack Rupert, PE   12/27/2011 12:17:34 PM
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Rob - I think they are targeting the higher end markets because of the lack of penetration.  The base cost of ownership has not yet come down to a competitive level, so the majority of people who are buying them are the early adopter - those that want something cool, are willing to pay for the environmetal benefits, have another car for long trips or hauling.  The people that would mostly want the "cheap" version would also be looking at it as a replacement for their sole car, and these aren't there yet.

Jack Rupert, PE
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Platinum
Emergency Power?
Jack Rupert, PE   12/27/2011 12:22:04 PM
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Just wondering, with these pure EV's coming out what is there for emergency power?  If you aren't paying attention to your gas powered car, you walk to the nearest gas station, get a gas can and walk back with enough "power" to get back to the station for a complete fill-up.  What happens when your stranded with an electric vehicle - especially since it seems that the miles-per-charge vary a lot more than mile-per-gallon such as due to temperature?

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Charging scam
Rob Spiegel   12/27/2011 12:45:52 PM
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Good points, Jack. The heart of your argument is that the EVs can't replace a conventional vehicle. That makes EVs the vacation house of the auto world, primarily a luxury vehicle for those who are not seeking value as a primary quality of their auto purchase.

naperlou
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Re: Emergency Power?
naperlou   12/31/2011 5:53:10 PM
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This has always been the issue with BEVs.  Many years ago, spurred by oil price hikes and supply problems, the idea of a switchable battery pack was the solution.  The idea was that, instead of charging at home (which I guess you could do as well), you would pull into a "station" and the battery pack would be switched out.  The "station" would have a large number of packs and fast chargers.  At that time the batteries were not as capable, expensive or comples as the current ones.  My understanding is that the battery in the Tesla (which is arguably a much more capable device) is several hunderd pounds and costs about $25K.  I am not sure that these are the current figures, but they give the order of magnitude. 

The real answer is that the BEV is relegated to a second car for local driving.  That wil limprove over time, but it does limit the market at the current price.

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