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Captain Hybrid

Slideshow: Lithium-Ion's Rise to Prominence

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Rob Spiegel
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Re: Image problems?
Rob Spiegel   5/3/2013 1:36:17 PM
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Well agrued, Totally_Lost. I particularly see your point on the systems that would be  retrofitted. Add to that plug-in devices from teenagers who are well known for their lack on interest in security. So, good points.

Totally_Lost
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Re: Image problems?
Totally_Lost   5/2/2013 1:08:12 PM
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Rob ... the problem with security is it's very hard to retrofit, if not carefully and fully designed in from the beginning.

There are a lot of potential attack vectors for cars of the future, expecially if "entertainment systems" continue to be tightly integrated with control systems. Consider a car that offers internet access with an onboard touch screen web browser for passengers, with outdated browser plug-ins like Java, Adobe Reader or Flash Player -- all of which are potential attack vectors with exploits that don't require click authorization.

Then consider that these plug-in's are not always secure .... and haven't been for a while now. google:

Whitehole exploit toolkit


So far there hasn't been a mandate for highly secure automotive control systems ... and we have people selling chip-kits that replace the factory firmware for many auto's and trucks.


Over heat a large Li-Ion battery pack, and thermal runaway is unavoidable if the thermal management system can be compromised by software ... either disabling termal lockouts for charging, or disabling thermal lockouts for discharging, or both.

I simply raise this, because it's very likely with current trends, that Li-Ion batteries will be a target in the future .... posting this certainly let the cat out of the bag. Someone needs to be responsible up front, and set clear design thresholds for safety ... not just for preventing thermal runaway of Li-Ion batteries, but coordinated attacks which might disable or seize control of a car remotely as part of a coordinated infrastructure attack.

Consider the "Fire Sale" from Die Hard :)

That was theater ... reality isn't that far behind.

Charles Murray
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Re: Image problems?
Charles Murray   5/1/2013 10:09:53 PM
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I believe that lithium-ion will be with us for a long time to come, Rob. There are so many producers of the technology out there now, and the energy capacity of this chemistry is so great, that engineers will find a use for them, unless some catastrophic accident occurs.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Image problems?
Rob Spiegel   4/26/2013 10:04:40 AM
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It will be interesting to see how the lithium-ion battery fares going forward. Seems the automakers have invested heavily in this battery, even with the questions still flloating around. Your point earlier concerning the value of a used EVs that needs a new battery still haunts the ultimate validity and afflordability of EVs.

Charles Murray
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Re: Image problems?
Charles Murray   4/25/2013 9:04:12 PM
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I know there was awareness of the past track record of battery development, Rob. But there's always a temptation to believe that the technology's time has finally come, especially with enough funding.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: Image problems?
Rob Spiegel   4/24/2013 11:21:07 AM
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That prediction is very interesting, Chuck. I wonder if the design teams creating EVs with lithium-ion batteries were sufficiently aware of the chemistry challenges. A few screw-ups can do real damage to a business that is still in the cradle.

Debera Harward
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Re: Image problems?
Debera Harward   4/24/2013 5:15:54 AM
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Wlliam i agree to you although lithium ion cells canbe the future technology but it also has its limitations.One of the major limitation is ageing and this depends upon number of times the cell has been charged it doesnt depend upon the time period of the battery usage infact depends upon the number of cycles the battery has gone for recharging .Research has shown that it should be charged within 40 to 50% rather than 100 percent in order to protect the battery. Secondly one should take care of over charging as well this also reduces the life of lithium ion cells .

Charles Murray
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Re: Image problems?
Charles Murray   4/23/2013 9:21:26 PM
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A lot of well-intentioned money went into this technology, ChasChas. David Cole -- who is the chairman emeritus of The Center for Automotive Reserach and the former head of the automotive engineering program at the University of Michigan and the auto industry's most respected consultant -- told me this: "The government was waving billions of dollars around, and to get that money, you had to talk about cars and you had to talk about lithium batteries." My personal belief is that many people outside the auto industry made the assumption that batteries would advance the way electronics did two decades ago; all we had to do was throw money at it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, and never has during the past hundred years.

William K.
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Re: Image problems?
William K.   4/23/2013 12:14:08 PM
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far911, battery failure, or at least the reduction in performance after repeated useage, is what I thought I was talking about. It is a combination of factors that use up battery life. More current draw causes a more frequent need to recharge, and it is the charge/discharge cycles thast ultimately use up a batterie's life. So while the relationship is less clear, it is certainly real.

far911
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Re: Image problems?
far911   4/23/2013 9:36:02 AM
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William that would relate to the amount of time you get out of your battery once you've charged it. I'm talking about preserving battery life so that it doesn't die from continued usage over time.

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