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Battery-Electric Vehicles: It's a Question of Trickle-Down

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patb2009
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Re: a long slow road
patb2009   8/5/2014 11:58:23 PM
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If we switch the Entire US Vehicle fleet to EVs, to a first order we need 

30% more generating capacity, however, Modern LED lighting is destroying

about 20% of demand and Solar PV is starting to destroy about 20% of daytime demand.

 

Having Cars that commute to a work place with a big Solar PV array makes for an ideal

load match and can be a low quality demand, so you can switch off the car chargers

when you need the power, or turn them up, when you need to soak up power.

 

I suspect in 5 years, most people will have a EV and a big solar array.

Trenth
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Re: a long slow road
Trenth   7/24/2014 2:57:26 PM
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What do you mean?  Power shortage?  For a plug in hybrid, it just becomes a hybrid that you add fuel to.   That really doesn't save hydrocarbon fuels, but it costs no more.  It could act as a home generator as well.  


a2
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Re: a long slow road
a2   7/24/2014 2:48:21 AM
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@trenth: Well what happens if there is a power shortage? What sort of a battery capacity does it hold ? 

Trenth
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Re: a long slow road
Trenth   7/23/2014 10:04:56 PM
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Yougot it, it's the first 30-40 miles.  The electric only cars are not that great an idea at the moment.   Plug in hybrids are the best idea for now.  BTW, the LEAF has sold over 100,000 cars world wide.  That's better than the plug in hybrids.  The early Prius was just an efficient gas car with interesting electric details.  It's the plug in electric and hybrid cars that will make the difference.  Already the Volt's 30 miles is plenty for a plug in hybrid.  The problem is the weight and cost of the backup hydrocarbon generators.  


CharlesM
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Re: a long slow road
CharlesM   7/23/2014 1:47:30 PM
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The Volt won't fit everyone's needs and budget, no. (What car can?) It's definitely all about the first 40 miles per day, as you rightly point out. And the number of generator miles after that (a lot) that it would take to erase that benefit. And the electric propulsion experience that continues in any mode. And the low maintenance. That's about all.

But few know much about the car. I get odd and simple questions all the time. "Does it use gas?" "How far can it go?" "How can it keep going after the battery's dead?" Etc.

Until I owned one, even I thought that the depleted battery becomes just dead weight until it's recharged. No; it still fuels the car as a high current buffer and just gets recharged in bursts from the generator to its same average state of charge. That's why it's always an electric car. It's a little complicated, true, but the general public is mostly oblivious. Things won't stay this way forever. (Especially after the Supreme Court requires everyone to buy one! ; >) ) 

naperlou
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Re: a long slow road
naperlou   7/23/2014 12:49:25 PM
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CharlesM, of course you are correct. On the other hand he would not get the per mile cost he is so enamoured with.  I should have been more clear.  He is very happy that he almost never has to use the generator, which would change is cost metric.  If he does need to drive somewhere distant, then he does have the ability to do that.  Frankly, if he was using the generator a lot, he might be better off with a Cruze (which is about the same size). 

CharlesM
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Re: Wishes don't make it work
CharlesM   7/23/2014 9:11:17 AM
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And what would happen if the supreme court decided to mandate all electric cars? That court answers to nobody, in practice, although in theory they do answer to the legislature, I think.

{FACEPALM} Uh, almost. The judicial branch doesn't write laws. And can anyone imagine this Supreme Court (or any in history) going out of its way to rule in favor of clean air at the expense of "individual liberties, freedoms," etc.?  And what lawmaker would try to do that? It would be direct political suicide and clearly and obviously unconstitutional.

CharlesM
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Re: a long slow road
CharlesM   7/23/2014 9:00:23 AM
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 On the other hand, he [Volt driver] still has to recharge each night.  With an ICE, if I am low on fuel, I can pull into a gasoline station, one of over 100,000 in the US, and fill up in minutes. 

Naperlou, I'm sure you know better, but this kind of propagation of common misconceptions illustrates one of the hurdles plug-in hybrids have to overcome in order to gain acceptance. The Volt doesn't ever have to be plugged in. Your neighbor can just drive from gas station to gas station, the same way you do, if he chooses to skip getting 100 or so MPGe from cheap electricity, and instead get only 35-40 MPG from gasoline.

William K.
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Re: Wishes don't make it work
William K.   7/22/2014 6:24:33 PM
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Charles, you are correct, although I am sure that if they could do it they would. But so far voting is our only defense against really bad ideas. And what would happen if the supreme court decided to mandate all electric cars? That court answers to nobody, in practice, although in theory they do answer to the legislature, I think.

But just becaause something is a really bad idea does not mean that the legislators will not embrace it. We have seen that a few times.

Charles Murray
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Re: Wishes don't make it work
Charles Murray   7/22/2014 6:17:00 PM
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It's easier for political leaders to push the auto companies to meet mandates, William K. If they pushed consumers -- for example, if they demanded that all second cars were electric -- they'd lose votes.

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